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America, put away your weapons

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Perry Stroika, Nov 7, 2002.

  1. Perry Stroika

    Perry Stroika Member

    Because Russia will take care of Iraq. :)

    I gamble to say that within a month, there will be a coup. Inspired by Russia.

    It has been happening for months, but think it's close now.

    Good luck to us.
  2. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    OK, Perry. Give us something. I've read of the problems, but you really believe the time is now? Why?
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I don't even know if I can take that seriously. But he probably knows more than I do with this.

    You gonna leave us hanging?
  4. ditch

    ditch Downunder Member

    Now thats a solution that hasn't been aired. I'm having difficulty thinking of a better one.
  5. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Perry, when are we going to get the Top Secret stuff not stuff that has been released to certain press?

    Saw this on Stratfor:

    Informed Russian sources told Stratfor on Nov. 7 that Russian
    intelligence services are working in tandem with pro-Russian
    Iraqi generals to oust Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, hoping to
    stave off a U.S. war. Moscow seeks to stage a coup before the end
    of November, in time to prevent a U.S. attack.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin reportedly does not aim to
    hijack a U.S. victory over Iraq, but rather fears that a war
    would have serious economic consequences for his country and
    would hurt its international standing. Sources say Putin likely
    has discussed the matter with U.S. President George W. Bush.

    However, two problems would arise with a pre-emptive coup

    First, the only Iraqi leaders powerful enough to oust Hussein are
    his own relatives -- though not his sons -- as these are the only
    generals trusted to come near the Iraqi leader. Bush likely would
    not agree to a new regime that keeps any Hussein family members
    in power; if the United States proceeds with its war effort,
    Russia's attempts to hatch a coup will have been for naught.

    Second, Putin seeks to ensure that the Kremlin's efforts will be
    appreciated, and that the future regime in Baghdad will be
    equally pro-Russian and pro-U.S. So far, however, Putin's pro-
    Western strategy has yielded few dividends from Washington. For
    example, to secure the overthrow of the Taliban in Afghanistan,
    Moscow gathered and shared crucial intelligence with U.S.
    commanders, was influential in securing the cooperation of the
    Northern Alliance with U.S. forces and sent its own special
    forces to fight and die for the U.S. victory -- but Bush glossed
    over these contributions when he proclaimed victory in
    Afghanistan early this year. The Kremlin has no guarantees that
    Washington will safeguard Russia's interests in Iraq once Hussein
    is out of power.

    Moreover, Putin fears that Bush would take an ill view of a
    Russian-organized coup, perceiving it as an attempt to steal a
    U.S. victory in Iraq. Sources say Bush's reaction to the plan is
    not known, but Putin appears undecided as to whether to sanction
    the risky coup attempt, even though it reportedly has been partly
    prepared already.

    If Iraqi generals backed by Moscow do succeed in replacing
    Hussein with one of his relatives, that alone would not eliminate
    the likelihood of a U.S. attack. It could, however, delay
    military action and increase the chances for a peaceful
    resolution. Washington would demand Hussein's extradition, U.S.
    oversight of Iraq's disarmament and further changes in Baghdad --
    including removing Hussein's relatives from power -- and Russia
    would push the new Iraqi regime to accept these conditions.
  6. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    coup is cleary the most logical solution, but it wont do anything to stimulate the military-industrial complex and give the american economy a much needed kick start.

    vulcans we aint.

  7. Sunriser13

    Sunriser13 Knee Deep in Paradise

    Very interesting, Leon. Is Stratfor a reliable source of information?

    Being of the generation of the Cold War, I am still learning to get over the propaganda I've been fed most of my life. I am also beginning to believe that Russia and the US could be powerful allies, particularly with what's going on now.
  8. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Also there is the other things as Perry said, like who is in charge after the Coup. I don't think it is so much that we want a coup that is a minor change, but a major change in the order of government style there. I would pray for a serious coup for all the young men and women that wouldn't come back upright. I don't think that it is as likely, as all the Generals are not gonna get Sadaam easily.
  9. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Sun, Stratfor alone, I probably would not trust on a big issue like this. But Perry is in the loop in a big way from the Russian side, so...

    Jim, if Russia pulls this off they will become a big player with substance overnight on the international theatre and will certainly show the world that they are capable of insidious plants even today. :)
  10. bruzzes

    bruzzes Truthslayer

    We are all under the impression that war is inevitable.
    Isn't that notion a bit pre-mature?

    The positioning in the UN and the military forces do not portray immediate reprisals but merely common sense IF war becomes necessary.

    Saddam has a way out. Total acceptance of the last UN Resolution is the ticket that can stave off the war.

    He has seemed to back down many times just prior to action that would topple him. I would not be surprised if he does it again.

    The Coup of course is the dream we all wish would happen.
    Moderate leaders in that country would create a chain reaction in Iran as well. With new freedoms and an end to hard fundamental Islam, a new an powerful nation would arise with the help of the world rushing in to rebuild. That consequence cannot but help push Iran back to reform.

    I hope that the wisdom in forcing this outcome becomes the highest priority on the Russian list. As much as I am a child of the cold war mentality, I see great advantages in the increased Russian sphere of influence that would elevate that country back to it's previous stature.

    With the continued presence of perestroika (sp?), and in partnership with the US, and with the unique perceptions of both countries perhaps we can avoid what some see now as an approaching Apocalypse between Islam and the Western Religions.
  11. jamming

    jamming Banned

    All I was saying is it needs to be a major transformational Coup.
  12. Domh

    Domh Full Member

    Weve been down that road more than a few times. This time will be no different.

    Hussein will fuck it up, and then become fucked up.

    Stinks of inevitability to me.

  13. immortal one

    immortal one 501st Geronimo

    I would love to see the our Russian friends pull it off, as they are capable, but I think Saddam wants war. The Iraqi parliament unanimously voted against the UN resolution, and they are now buying mass quantities of atropine from Turkey as an antidote for nerve agents.
    I don't believe Saddam will take the way out, and accept the UN resolution. He would rather go out fighting. It is his nature.
  14. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Nah. I think it's all posturing.

    The mouthpiece for Saddam is just that and he wants to be a hero in front of his people. So here's the plan.

    "You guys vote unanimously against the UN resolution, and I will override your decisions!

    Of course, I won't allow UN here, but it's my game."

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