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A toy gun, a real crime

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Biker, Jan 11, 2003.

  1. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Now they're going too far. In a case of using a nuclear bomb to smack a gnat, it seems a couple of councilmen in NYC want to <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/08/ctv.toy.guns/index.html" target="blank">ban toy guns outright</a>.

    Uh huh. Yup. This will keep the cops from shooting kids who using toy guns to commit crime. BULLSHIT. Let's get to the root of the problem and that's the sniveling, low life scum buckets who use whatever means they can think of to commit a crime.

    Can't wait for them to start carving guns out of soap and get that banned as well.
  2. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    If it's not a toy gun, it's the old index-finger-in-the-jacket-pocket. A person hell bent on committing a crime and victimizing another person will finagle their way to that goal.

    I swear, what happens to people when they become politicians? Does working in public office make one stupid automatically?
  3. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    Biker, didn't UK just pass this in to action last week?
  4. jamming

    jamming Banned

    Not working, but being elected kills brain cells.
  5. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    What? I have a consitutional right to own my Nerf Armory! This is an outrage!

    On a more serious note, well actually this is so idiotic is it possible to say anything serious on the matter?
  6. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    Yes, Techie, I believe there is.

    Will banning toy guns reduce crime? I wish. A toy gun can be easily fashioned from wood, soap, plumbing fixtures, etc. The issue about kids possessing <i>real</i> guns is something much more important to address. If the existing gun laws, pursuant to the 2nd amendment, are to remain, then only education and parental responsibility will reduce the needless death of children from guns -- be at the hands of a schoolmate, or a cop who mistakes a plastic water pistol for the real thing.

    But there are really two issues here. One is the issue of hoodlums using "fake" guns only because they cannot get their hands on a real one (in which case I say to the NYC councilman, "get a grip!"). The other is <i>young</i> kids simply playing with toy guns, and the potential effects of being allowed to do so.

    This is where I applaud the intention of the NYC councilman -- if I never saw a toy gun in a childs hand ever again I'd be happy. I will not approve of toy guns in my house (let alone real ones) -- simple as that. Although, I'd never punish my son for making them out of anything he can find -- as he so does often, and as I so often did as a child as well (my father allowed me to play with toy guns as long as I didn't point them at anyone) -- I do talk to him about why I do not approve of guns.

    Unfortunately, the concluding remark, as stated, seems to miss even this point (at least, <i>my</i> point):

    <i>Said Vann, "If they use toy guns there's a greater chance they'll graduate to the real thing when they grow up." </i>

    It's not that I think my son and his other 5 yo freinds (and most kids, for that matter) will grow up to be hoodlums if they play with toy guns, it's simply that I believe playing with toy guns decreases the sensitivity to the consequences of <i>real</i> guns. In a child's mind, pointing a toy weapon at someone is as innocuous as pointing a banana at someone. There are simply too many cases of kids who find <i>real</i> guns in their parents' bedroom, who also assumed pointing it at thier little friend or sibling was an innocuous as pointing a banana. What a horrible reality to face for any child.

    Again, the importance of education and <b>parental responsibility</b> can not be overly stressed, no matter what your stance on gun control is.
  7. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    That's the problem. People think it's soooooooooooo stupid, then scratch their head when it comes to pass and wonder what the hell happened.

    Getting rather tired of the "band aid" approach instead of rooting out the cause of the problem.
  8. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Not exposing your child to proper firearm safety procedures is what kills kids. Burying one's head in the sand and saying "not in my house" only increases the problem of what happens when your child DOES find a firearm.

    Yes.. Education and parental responsibility is good, but wishing the problem away by not even exposing your kids to play toys is compounding the issue.
  9. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    What the <b>**C*</b>??? First it was, "<i>Guns kill people</i>." Now it's, "<i><b>PLASTIC</b> guns kill people</i>!"

    Hell<b><i>OOOOO</b></i>ooooooooo!!!! <b>PEOPLE</b> kill people.

    Has anyone mentioned that the ban is only on the sale of toy guns within city limits? WTF is stopping them from driving 10 miles to the next town and buying an arsenal of plastic guns?

    Wait a minute... <b><i><u>PLASTIC</b></u></i> guns????
    On the <b>other</b> hand...

    Can you imagine being a cop... running around a corner... chasing a scumbag, lowlife, worthless criminal... seeing a person crouched with a gun pointing at you... thinking, all within a split second... "<i>DAMN! SHOOT OR DIE!</i>... and killing a child with a toy?

    It all comes down to... wait... I hear that... that word... it's... yes!... it's...


    Without that, humanity was extinct upon it's first conception within the ladder of evolution. But then that's true with all species of life. Isn't it. ;)
  10. Techie2000

    Techie2000 The crowd would sing:

    Actually PEOPLE with guns (knives, baseball bats, etc.) kill people...
  11. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    No Techie.. You don't need a gun, knife, bat, etc. to kill someone. People DO kill people.
  12. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    Education and parental responsibility are more than "good", they are paramount. As I stated, this is necessary no matter what stance you take on gun ownership.

    "Burying one's head in the sand" is what increases the problems with guns in the hands of kids, not saying "not in my house". The two concepts do not necessarily co-exist. To imply this is so negates the fact that gun safety can be taught without condoning gun ownership, which is patently ludricrous.

    Even if a parent choses not to expose their kids to toy guns, they get exposed to the concept as soon as they start pre-school anyway. Most rational people know this. This is why parents need to talk to kids about guns at an early age, which does not, in my view, compound the problem. This is called taking parental responsibility to educate our kids about the consequences of playing with guns. One could argue that exposing kids to firearms at any early age also compounds the problem, especially if the exposer has <i>their</i> head buried in the sand.
  13. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Knowing the curiousity of a child, and the exposure they'll get on TV, school, etc., does one really honestly think that they'll leave a gun alone if they find one? Even if "Mom and Dad" say don't touch it, what is a kid going to do when mom and dad isn't around? Bet your bottom dollar he or she will touch it. Kids are curious, and it's a normal conclusion to expect them to touch a gun if one is found.
  14. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    Seconded. I apologize as this is supposed to be a logical debate but this hits close to home. I saw way to much people on people violence using nothing but anatomy while working trauma as an x-ray tech.

    Sorry for going OT.
  15. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    There have been studies done showing that when (unloaded)guns are hidden and kids are allowed to find them, instead of going to find an adult as they have been taught, they begin to play with it instead. This was shown on various tv shows.
  16. Coriolis

    Coriolis Bob's your uncle

    One would be "burying their head in the sand" if they believed this was not so. But it's a fair bet that kids might be less likely to pick up a gun if they've been educated about the consequences of doing so. You don't need a gun in the house to teach children these responsibilities. Not having guns in the house would, in my opinion, be a much better solution, but given that this is unrealistic in the US, this is exactly why education and parental responsibility are so important.
  17. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    Which is why my son will know how to strip, clean, lightly oil and reassemble my guns better than his mother does as soon as his fingers are capable of doing so.

    He'll also soon learn that people can use them to kill... end a life... terminate a life... destroy.

    And he'll, most of all, learn that no gun can do the amount of damage that his father can do if his father ever catches him touching a gun without his father's permission.

    <small>PS: He'll also have pre-approved permission to shoot any stranger who enters his home without permission and without total "co-operation", in the general area that the good Lord has bestowed upon all human beings for procreation.</small>
  18. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Studies have shown that regardless of what you tell your child, if they find a gun, they'll most likely pick it up. Doesn't matter if you tell them not to, and preach until you're blue in the face. Fact of the matter is, they will most likely handle the firearm if a person of some authority is not present to see them.
  19. HaYwIrE

    HaYwIrE Banned

    With all due respect, bullshit.

    My son will not do that which he knows I do not approve of even when I am not there to make sure of it.

    I swear to that.
  20. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Uh huh.. And I'll bet the parents of many children who were accidentally shot by a sibling said the same thing.

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