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A prime example of why civilians should be kept out of military matters

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Biker, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry, although I can't begin to feel what <a href="http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20030201/wlege0201/Front/homeBN/breakingnews" target="blank">she's feeling</a>, the families had no business being at the hearing. Obviously this whole thing is a sham and the two pilots are going to get railroaded.

    Couldn't help but feel the article was nothing more than an attempt to keep the media feeding frenzy alive and well. Phooey!
  2. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Survivors of the deceased are <b>always</b> allowed at pre-trial hearings... heck, they can attend the trial itself if they want to. Nothing new here.

    What's unusual is that the woman was interviewed.

    Biker, if I understand you, you think this is a tactic by the US Air Force to reinforce in the public's mind that the pilots are guilty. Possible, I suppose, but since this is a military trial, I don't know that public opinion has a lot of effect.

    Likely an overactive reporter looking for <i>something (anything!)</i> to write about.
  3. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    No.... I think this is a tactic by the media to keep things fresh in everyone's mind so the "politic" game can be played, rather than getting a fair shake for the pilots involved.

    I've never seen a "friendly fire" incident receive so much attention that this one has, and quite frankly, if the pilots are brought before a court martial, would send a chilling signal throughout the entire military complex.

    I've also advocated a distinct seperation between the military and the civilian world. Far as I'm concerned, the press can go pound sand when it comes to military matters.

    Can you tell I'm retired Air Force?
  4. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    I never would have guessed! ;) I did some checking on Article 32 hearings (the "preliminary" hearing the pilots are now going through); I was surprised to discover they are all open to the public, unless the military court sees fit to hold them "in camera".

    Several I checked on (one rape and two assaults) had notes for the media on who to contact for special seating.
  5. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    Biker, the evidence is that they did not follow procedures, did not follow the orders given by the controller of the flight, were at a lower altitude than prescribed. Why do you think they are being railroaded?
  6. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Because any other instance of failing to follow orders would be quietly dealt with without all the politcal hoopla that's currently surrounding the case.
  7. ShinyTop

    ShinyTop I know what is right or wrong!

    So you agree they should face discipline but disagree with the extreme coverage? I can agree with that although I don't know how you answer the citizens of Canada that we are properly investigating the incident. I think we owe them that as long as we are not railroading the pilots.
  8. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry, there has probably been many cases of "friendly fire" incidents before this without the media circus that has surrounded this one. Once everything is done and said with, a formal communication with the government of Canada. That's it. No need to have the current circle jerk that's going on with this case.
  9. muddly

    muddly Guest

    Biker, seriously, how does a Canadian newspaper printing comments from one of the wives translate to railroading?

    Another instance of failing to follow orders might be dealt with quietly, but the fact is this one killed 4 people and wounded 8 others in rather spectacular fashion. I don't think the coverage has been either too little or too much.

    And frankly I have heard more yapping about "what should happen" from the pilots' wives than from the wives of the victims. If there is a media feeding frenzy it cuts both ways. I don't think it will have anything to do with whether there is a court martial or not. Maybe I'm naive.

    Based on the incident report, which I read in its entirety, I hope they court martial Schmidt. I believe he deserves it for his actions... like Mrs. Leger I'm lukewarm on Umbach. If it happens, I don't see how it could be considered railroading. I would consider Schmidt extremely lucky if it doesn't happen.
  10. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Oh yes, I do agree it cuts both ways. My big problem is listening to civilians state that he should/should not be court martialed. I'm a bit biased, but civilians have no business sticking their noses into what should be strictly a military matter. ;)
  11. muddly

    muddly Guest

    Well if it's more a matter of annoyance than concern that justice is being warped, you could always stop punishing yourself by reading interviews like that ;)
  12. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    Or, it's the military's responsibility to keep such matters private in the first place. Can't really blame reporters for reporting on things they're allowed access to, can we?
  13. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    That's just it.. Media has no business there, either.

    Many many many years ago, I was meeting a board for some award (Airman of the Quarter or something like that). One of the questions I was asked was whether I agreed with censoring the media when it came to military matters. My response was immediate. The media has NO business in the military. Can't trust 'em to keep their big mouth's shut. I was one happy camper when CNN found out they were being played during the Gulf War and royally pissed off when they were on the beach when we were landing in Somalia.

    Ain't no such thing as freedom of the press when it comes to protecting what goes on in the military. Far as I'm concerned, they should butt out and STAY out.
  14. Advocat

    Advocat Viral Memes a Speciality Staff Member

    I can see what you're saying, but it's the job of the military to close those doors in the first place. Yelling at the media for reporting public information is kind of an oxymoron.
  15. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Not really, for it's the media who badger the governments for access to begin with. Long gone are the days when the military could tell the reporter to bugger off and get away with it.
  16. pupowski

    pupowski Banned

    I concur. It appears these pilots are being singled out for political purposes. Dishonorable discharges, loss of pension etc., and the stigma of the incident seem quite enough. The deaths were unfortunate, and there were violations , but it looks like over-kill based upon press reports of the incident. I have no objection to family members present at pre-trial and trial, as long as they don't prejudice the defendents . The media is a necessary evil, to keep citizens informed, and prevent abuses. Secret government is a threat to democracy.
  17. Sacchiridites

    Sacchiridites Banned

    Perhaps it's the media that need mediated? Censorship?
    Ack.. is the problem that someone's trying to benefit from someone else's grief? She's grieving....yah. It hurts and she can't shut up. Media took it and ran with it? I dunno.
    I never would have known it. But, this one, I'm glad I do. It keeps me informed as to what our soldiers are up to and where. As long as it's obscure and not on the front page.....oops, it's on the internet.

    Media has the power to turn the masses against or for some political cause. I wouldn't underestimate the power of it, but I definitely question the necessity of it.
    It's a bit better than our U.S. reporters trying to get a good look at the Afghan villages that we blew up, only for them to be held at gunpoint by U.S. forces, not allowed to enter.


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