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A Broken Paradigm and a Dirty Little Secret

Discussion in 'Issues Around the World' started by Coot, Oct 31, 2002.

  1. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    The new racism being practiced in this country is not at the hands of white bigots, but rather at the hands of a liberal education system.

    In another thread, I posted this link to a story about a teacher being suspended for having the audacity to tell the truth about what was going on at his school. Don't go skeptical on me yet, this isn't the racism I am referring to. The African American community went from out and out condemnation of Phelps to becoming galvanized behind him, inspite of the stance of "black leadership" on the issue. There is a link to Phelps' email letter that started the furor on that page as well.

    There has to be more to this than black kids acting badly and someone having the nerve to point it out. Lo and behold, as I was driving home last night and clicking through radio stations, I happened upon a talk show that was working this story and what happened next floored me. An education student from Cal State Fullerton faxed in a chapter from one of her text books, Sensitizing Teachers to Cultural Differences, by Evelyn Baker Dandy of Armstrong College in Georgia. Mrs. Dandy is an African American woman who may be largely responsible for screwing millions of kids out of an education and assuring that our schools have adequately prepared a large number of young black men for prison.

    While I cannot find any appreciable excerpts from the book to quote, I will paraphrase as best I can the content of what was recited. Mrs. Dandy is of the opinion that the behavior of young black males with respect to verbal abuse and physical intimidation of teachers is a rite of passage in the black culture and is to be appreciated as such by teachers and not to be disciplined. Her book goes on to suggest that when these episodes take place, that classroom teaching activities be stopped so that the whole class can appreciate the activity. Her presupposition that black males are somehow unaccountable for these actions is perhaps one of the most dangerous pieces of racism to have found its way into print in probably the last 100 years. The underlying premise is that black males are not capable of following a universal standard of behavior and decorum in a classroom environment.

    As bad as this is, her paradigm is being followed in over 50 Urban School systems by administrators and it is what education majors at many of the country's universities are being taught...and that's the dirty little secret.

    Obviously, taking that kind of behavior into a work environment gets one quickly shown the door. If this behavior is being reinforced in young black males in our schools, it is no wonder that they are disproportionately populating our prisons.

    I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% of African American births are out of wedlock. If there is little or no parenting in the home, then the street culture of the ghetto carries forward. If there is no discipline in many of these homes, and teachers are not allowed to provide it, a whole subset of our society is set up to fail.

    To quote from the second link above:
    The short term positive in the Pasadena situation is that Mr. Phelps was reinstated.

    It is way past time to take back the schools from the touchy feely Culturally Sensitive agenda and instill the classroom with a Culture of Education, in the strict analytical European style of education where students learned about the Arts and Sciences and where they learned about the consequences of disrespect and misbehavior.

    Now that the dirty little secret is out, and at least some of the African American community sees it for what it is and are showing inclination to take their voices back from the likes of Jackson and Sharpton, this may yet turn into something that can galvanize us across race lines and gel into a common sense that is universally accepted. I sure hope the dirty little secret finds its way out of Los Angeles and into the mainstream.
  2. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    I think you've hit the target regarding how this can be fixed and it SEEMS as if the black community is picking up on it.

    The answer is that they need to reject conforming to the "good intentioned" policies laid down by the people who have no idea what they are saying or doing.

    By the way, excellent presentation of an issue.
  3. RRedline

    RRedline Veteran MMember

    That was a fascinating read, Coot! I am a product of Pitt's education program, and I had quite a few debates with a few of the more liberal professors. For example, Ebonics was the thing back in the late '90s, and I was and still am vehemently opposed to recognizing it as a structured, correct way to speak and/or write. I'm sorry, but "We're too lazy to learn proper English" is not a damned language, IN MY OPINION.

    What is the woman's reasons for suggesting that black children who act out should get positive attention? And what if the white kids act the same way? Should they be treated differently? If so, what happened to MLK's famous speech?

    It sounds to me like this lady wants to justify these children's bad behavior and poor attitudes instead of working to correct them. As you've pointed out, what are these young men and women going to do when they get hired? Are they going to act like @ssholes and then sue their employers when they get fired? I'm sure Jesse Jackson and Johnnie Cochran will be waiting.

    This really is sad. I hope that Afican Americans will be able to see this PC BS for what it really is and ignore this crazed woman's racist solutions to a very serious problem.
  4. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    What is perhaps most fascinating about this is that while the African American Community was at first incensed about what the Pasadena teacher did, once many of them read the actual email, they called bullshit on the activists in the community that were calling for this guy's head. Then, once the actual passages from Mrs. Dandy's book were read outloud on the radio, the callers...the African American callers were incensed. I was impressed. While community activists wanted this guy's head, the engaged portion of the black community (whom I thougt would never listen to this right wing station) were preparing to seriously go after the school.

    While the African American community may be all too ready to scream racism...even when it isn't warranted, they appear to be just as ready to hold boneheaded administrators accountable for being clueless. IMHO, much of this goes directly back to LBJ's 'Great Society' wherein clueless misguided liberals thought it would be a grand idea to start rewarding black women to have babies out of wedlock, and then to engender entire generations to do the same. If there's no positive male role model, then kids are in trouble.

    The white culture is following this same destructive path with regards to kids having access to two parents, or the lack thereof. As belligerant behavior from white kids in schools is not tolerated whatsoever, a case can perhaps be made that incidents of the Columbine nature can be attributed to the repression of white culture. I'm not overly inclined to go there...yet, but it's worth exploring.

    Misanthropic white kids shoot up their schools...misanthropic black kids tend to get past school and shoot up other misanthropic black kids.

    I'm pretty damned sure that if our schools are actively discouraged from producing said misanthropes, a whole lot of this goes away.
  5. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    No Kidding! Wacko liberals?

    So, you are saying (and documenting very clearly) there
    is incompetence in the educational field? Perhaps if we
    lower the pay rate a little more, we can hire better people.

    After all, the common Newtism is "Why do you liberals always
    think throwing money at a problem will cure it?" To which
    I would answer, have you been inside a school recently?

    Thanks for pointing out this industry has so obviously
    become saturated with Liberals. Of course, only a liberal
    would work in a job which doesn't pay enough money to
    affford a house in the town you teach in.

    Is Mrs. Dandy's ideas crazy? I think so. I also believe
    anyone is entitled to express their ideas no matter
    how crazy they are (you would expect that to be
    important to a guy who has so many crazy ideas).

    More to the point, what about the people who listened
    to this idea, approved it and implemented the policy in
    their school. Shouldn't they be be shown the door?

    Maybe, we can replace them with some altruistic
    conservatives <i>(talk about an oxymoron)</i> willing to
    work for nothing and put up with the crap. It's more
    reasonable than expecting them to help pay the bill
    for better education.

    Great topic Coot.
  6. pupowski

    pupowski Banned

    Few, if any teachers in the public system are paid as little as teachers in Catholic schools, yet their students, black or otherwise, are among the highest performing academicly. That phenomenon has been consistent for decades, as the salary differential has widened. Catholic schools spend around $3000 per student / year to in my area, public schools around $6400, so your theory appears to be flawed.

    As a black poodle, I feel left out, as FLEA-bonics wasn't taught when I was a pup, and growling in the classroom was discouraged. Perhaps a lawsuit is in order to set things right.
  7. -Ken

    -Ken Guest

    But pup, let's face it, if if the public schools weren't required to educate
    every kid that was presented to them (sort of evening the playing field)
    we might see similar results in the public schools.

    We should expect to see a dramatic rise in a school's ability to teach and
    a huge cost savings if the public schools could "throw out" the "bad" kids.

    Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of what to do with these kids
    who don't fit into the mold.

    By the way, I am not commenting on Ebonics and whether or not it should
    be taught in schools.
  8. tke711

    tke711 Oink Oink Staff Member

    Everyone always talks about how little teachers make. So, I decided to do a little research to better educate myself on exactly what their average salary is. While doing this research, I stumbled onto a report by the AFL-CIO. The entire report can be found here (PDF), but here are a couple of highlights.

    - The 1999-2000 National Average salary for teachers: $41,820 (page 11)
    - The 1999-2000 National Average Starting salary for teachers: $27,989 (page 12)
    - Teachers salaries have generally outpaced inflation (page 13)
    - Connecticut has the highest average salary at $52,410 (page 17)
    - South Dakota has the lowest average salary at $29,072 (page 17)
    - In every state, the Average Teachers Salary exceeded the Private Sector Annual earnings. (page 21)
    - In every state, the Average Teachers Salary exceeded the Per Capita Personal Income for the state (page 22)

    According to this data, teachers do not seem to be as underpaid as everyone would have us believe. Later in the long report, it shows that teachers make less, on average, then several other white-collar professions. However, we have to remember that teachers only work about 8 months a year, while other white-collar jobs dont have that luxury.

    I for one was quite surprised by the actual numbers and though I would share it for others to read.
  9. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    Coot, thank you for the topic. I was first flabbergasted, then heartened by the response from the community. I am curious about one thing, and I apologize if this is off-topic, but I have a suspicion there is some sort of cause-and-effect relationship:

    The gentleman made the comment about only grandparents and great-grandparents being present and then went on to state that the parents should stop getting drunk and high and take an interest in the issues.

    These same grandparents raised the children who are now evidently ignoring their responsibilities. I find it hard to believe that good citizens and good parents could be brought up well, completely fail to raise an entire generation, and then pick up with their grandchildren and do a good job.

    What happened to that middle generation, those parents who are now in their 30's and 40's? Why did so many of them go wrong, given the clear evidence of positive influences in their lives?
  10. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.


    Questions - are there any black teachers in America? Are there any black students learning to be teachers in any of the over 50 Universities the text is being used? Are there any black professors teaching at any of the over 50 Universities that text is being used in? Are there any black professors teaching from this text in any of the over 50 Universities that use this text?

    I'm not a black woman, but being of a minority, I am offended at what that text states - it effectively removes all traits of being a civilized human being, and tosses the black male in the same category as early neanderthal man - a being that is usually treated more like an animal than a human.

    Rite of passage? So if a hispanic kid or asian kid spit at a teacher, it's bad behavior - but a black kid does it, it's a rite of passage?

    And what exactly is she saying about the Black culture as a whole - that it is ACCEPTABLE within the black culture to go around beating and spitting and cussing at people, otherwise how could it be a rite of passage?

    I do not believe for 1 second that the black community, if informed of what was being taught, would stand for it. NO WAY. And I am sure there are black students being taught from that text - I am amazed that I haven't heard of this before now.
  11. Misu

    Misu Hey, I saw that.

    Actually, Pup, your theory is flawed - catholic schools are not required to teach anyone who can pay the $300-$600/month/student tuition fee - the student must first pass a battery of tests, to make sure they can cut the mustard at the school. Only the smarter kids with the $$$$ to pay get into private schools.

    If Catholic schools had to take every single child that walked in through their doors, living in their district, they would quickly be overwhelmed and mismanaged, just like public schools. Remember, public schools have to cater to EVERYONE - that includes special-needs childrens, both mentally and physically handicapped - outfitting an entire school to accomdate children with special needs is extremely expensive - I have yet to encounter a private school that caters to mentally challenged children, as those children would NEVER pass the tests required to start school. I have also yet to encounter a private school that accepts children who haven't yet mastered the English language, and must attend ESOL for several months.

    Private schools such as Catholic schools have it real comfortable when you factor in atypical kids.
  12. fritzmp

    fritzmp Fire Fire For Effect

    First off I think putting kids in school uniforms is a good idea. Remove the class affiliation and let Teachers whack them across the knuckles with a metal edge ruler is OK with me. Sitting in the corner with an Ass-Hole hat works too. Self esteem you say, F that, just who is running the class. Brake them down and build them up.
  13. Steve

    Steve Is that it, then?

    There have been some interesting studies lately that show that children with behavior, and even legal, problems, are just overflowing with self-esteem.

    Seems like it's not a lack of self-esteem that makes children act badly; it's poor upbringing and lack of discipline that do it.

    Go figure!
  14. fritzmp

    fritzmp Fire Fire For Effect

    The school system has empowered children buy showing fear. Until parents sign an agreement that states, your kid is going to get disciplined and humiliated in sight of his/her/it's pears for class and school disruption, this isn't going to change.
  15. drslash

    drslash It's all about the beer

    I always thought the pay teachers got was pretty good for part time work. ;)

    Liberals think more money will solve problems in education. The "Soak the rich" and "The tax cuts were a give a way for the rich" mantra is so old and tired it is pathetic. Liberals have no regard for property rights.

    Democrat liberals, show some guts, call for the repeal of the Bush tax cuts so more of these bad teachers and bad school systems can be rewarded.
  16. Coot

    Coot Passed Away January 7, 2010

    Actually, the teachers are fairly impotent in all of this. They are strictly prohibited from disciplining, they are held accountable for test scores and top down administrators blame the teachers for being ineffective in impossible classroom situations that are the creation of their own administrative policies.

    The kids have learned perfectly how to play the administrator's game. If a white teacher even attempts to chastise a black kid, the kid plays the race card and the administration beats on the teacher for being insensitive.

    I think it is not accidental that this particular teacher in Pasadena was the one to kick over the can of worms. He graduated from Cal Tech, which is a far cry from say Cal State Fullerton, which is a predominantly liberal arts school. He was a science major and not an education major and as such wasn't spoon fed this nonsense for 4 or 5 years.

    The social decimation of the black community which has resulted in the out of control behavioral problems in the schools can, I'm reasonably certain, be placed square in the lap of the failed social engineering attempts that began in the 60's. Throw money at the problem...pay women to have kids with no father around. Kids grow up in the projects and learn how to behave on the streets. Then along comes someone like Dandy that says this street culture needs to be embraced and that physical threats and initimidation of teachers is a positive thing.

    Dollars to donuts, Dandy's whole philosophy came out of someone's study that showed black kids were being disciplined in school at a disproportionate rate to any other ethnic background.

    I talked to a fellow this morning whose wife teaches in the LA Unified School District and they actually have racial quotas for the daily disciplining of students by Vice Prinicipals. If there's a fight or some other grossly bad act and the quota for the ethnic background of the kids involved has been reached, they get sent back to class.
  17. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Passed Away June 15th, 2009

    Let's throw some common sense and brains at the problem. Money without these just makes a huge mess, with fools like Dandy and the current crop of useless administrators.
  18. -Ken

    -Ken Guest


    If you are trying to convince me the school administration is apparently
    incompetent, I'm in complete agreement. Any administrator who would
    implement these policies needs a reality check.

    I'm saying, that's the kind of people we can expect to get if the salaries
    in high tech is much higher. For some strange reason, good people tend
    to go for the high paying jobs. The problem won't go away without some
    serious financial incentives - <i>read more money.</i>

    <small>Let's look on the bright side. At least, we're teaching the kids something they can use later in life!</small>
  19. ethics

    ethics Pomp-Dumpster Staff Member

    IT industry sucks something fierce right now. Everyday there are layoffs. My company alone is scaling back on hiring and stepping on the gas peddle to lay people off.

    If I am a college student going for IT, I'd rethink that real fast. Suddenly, teaching is a little bit safer as far as stability.
  20. drslash

    drslash It's all about the beer

    For some strange reason smart people want these failed schools with failed policies to remain open. Why not let the parents decide where they want their children to go to school - read...school vouchers

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