Death toll from Tsunamis reaches 22,000+.

First Stingy, Now Unilateral?

I wouldn't have believed this had I not seen it with my own peepers.

United States President George Bush was tonight accused of trying to undermine the United Nations by setting up a rival coalition to coordinate relief following the Asian tsunami disaster.

I think this initiative from America to set up four countries claiming to coordinate sounds like yet another attempt to undermine the UN when it is the best system we have got and the one that needs building up, she said.

Only really the UN can do that job, she told BBC Radio Fours PM programme.

It is the only body that has the moral authority. But it can only do it well if it is backed up by the authority of the great powers.

Perhpas Ms. Short would like to put down the pipe and step away from the podium. The UN, in typical fashion, is sitting around scratching its balls and waiting for a coordination summit in Geneva on the 14th. Meanwhile, the US, Japan and Australia are already providing substantial amounts of first responder kits of food, water and medicines.

One would think that in the teeth of an unprecedented natural disaster, UN proponents would be trying to find a way to, you know, actually do something; intead of railing against its own political impotence and inefficacy.

What the Useless Nations is really trying to figure out is a way to embezzle as much of the international relief funds as possible, preferably without getting caught.

- Dan

You're reading way too much about my "lack of empathy" toward the people in this tradgedy, and what is bantered around as way of poltical discourse in an electronic politcal discussion room. Having taken the last several days off during the holidays, I've had the TV on to CNN for hours at a time and have quietly sat in horror and saddness for much of the time. Anything we argue about in this forum isn't going to effect the hungry from recieving one meal or bottle of water, nor will it stop a single bomb in a single war. Forums like this are more for thoughtful people to sit and put their heads together and make sense of the madness continually taking place around them.
What is my mention of radiant energy in the Lithosphere offended anyone in this forum? It was the cause of the Earthquake which caused the Tsunami. It wasn't Posiedon, Polynesian Sea Goddesses or any othe dieties as far as I can see.
Why was there absolutely no warning system in place?
Today, all across America, people are going into Churches and giving huge sums of money to hear again the words and writings of first century Christians etc.The Televangelists and Immams and Shammans everywhere will trumpet their thoughts into their armies of sheep and be rewarded with platefuls of money. But unheard, unnoted, and untrumpeted a nerdy reasercher sits in a lab measuring and observing REALITY creating medicines for the elderly. An engineer plans and calculates the stresses needed for a bridge to stand safe and strong for decades. A meteorologist watches a screen for an early warning system protecting life.

But hmmm, if my thinking and words are so offensive let me take the religious point of view here and see how it reads. The last time there was flooding on this scale the holy texts clearly stated it was punishment from God for a wicked population. All those people on the beaches wearing damn near nothing is BIG TIME offesnive to a number of religions, as is the child prositution which was rampant in some of the regions afflicted, as was the prositution and drug production (thia-stick?) in general. Religious war in some of the countries had been on going. Could this be the wrath of God?
Could be, if that's your take on reality. Or it could be poor planning and the general waste of energy, thought and resources humanity continues to pour into antiquated moral systems based on fictitous dieties rather than a thoughtful respect for mankind.
Lamenting the dead may be socially acceptable and proper, but I'd rather look for the root causes that cost them their lives and discuss ways of stopping it again. What I'm seeing with humanity in general around this world reminds me of those jahovah's witnesses that won't allow their sick kids to get a blood stransfusion.
Science and planning, not lamenting and hiding behind "faith", are what are going to be the difference between people waking up somewhere someday after a tradegy like this and carrying on with their lives or being buried on a CNN newsreel.
"Faith is believing what you know aint so" - Mark Twain.

Heh...UN and moral authority in the same quote. Now that's hilarious. rofl

I agree completely. The US is damned if is does and damned if it don't.
And Ms. Short should stick it in her shorts. Idiot. But, that is what is going to happen...we will just be accused of handling it the wrong way, with not enough and with too much control.
Me...I'm sending money to the USO...they will support our troops who are there doing work.
While the situation is terrible, it's a tragedy, it really is best to keep in mind that we will get no credit and definately no love out of it.
We helped Iran, and what did we get for it?
All this concern....I wonder...how many sent money to the Islands when they lost 30k plus people this past summer. Hardly a peep out of anyone on the board. Perhaps the waves weren't big and spectacular enough?
I feel badly for those who were there, I feel badly for those who can't get out of there and I pray the powers that be make sure their people are taken care of before they stuff their pockets. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen. There was fraud with the 9/11 funds, fraud with the funds sent down here to Florida for these recent hurricanes and there is going to be a hell of a lot of fraud over there too. That, IMO, is the tragedy.
Now, I don't know about that story regarding the officials who didn't warn anyone regarding impending doom because they didn't want to scare off the tourists...after all, Bush knew about 9/11 too, right?
But I will say, I was quite amazed when I saw on the TV last night how pleased they were because the tourists are still coming.....

Let me repeat part of your previous post, and perhaps then you can see why I (and others) take offense at this line of crap you're pushing in this thread: [QUOTE']archiac religion pretty much much describes ALL religion. If in past posts I listed attrocities against Christians, I'm not advocating Christianity, just the rights of those poor misguided humans that beleive in that stuff. Or that the newt crawling under their house was previously their uncle Bert.[/quote]
I'm generally unaware of anyone in the disaster zone citing verses from the Koran and anti-Americanisms at this time--so far, that's really only coming from the UN.

You might want to dial it back in this thread, and save your ammo and indignation for another one. Oh yeah, and maybe develop something along the lines of empathy for those who are suffering in this way--they've lost everything, and that includes Muslims, Buddhists, Hindis, even Christians.

SM[/QUOTE] You don't like my tone because you interpret it as a lack of empathy for the hurt and the dead. That's your interpretation; that empathy is SO presumed by me it needent be expressed as it's pretty much a prerequisite for being a sane human being. But I read the title of this Forum as "Global Affairs", not "Global Mourning Forum". I do my mourning in private, not in forums. No one has to tell me about losing a child; I've lost one. No one has to tell me about mourning children, I'll never forget Samantha's face in the casket after teaching her in a special education class for two years full time-she was eight. The number of close freinds I've lost to aids numbers about seven. Please try to look again at the issues I was trying to draw attention to:

1.) Al Queda activity in the region is high, and rescources we're sending (non perishable food stuffs) can be used to sustain enemy forces.
2.) religion as a whole tends to obscure the nature of these events as "acts of God", when in fact they were failures of man to anticipate events that could reasonably and naturally occur without the maleavolent hand of viscous inscrutible dieties.
3.) Many more people will have days with their families rather than mass funerals if mankind will earnestly make an effort to deal with the real world in a scientific manner instead of fairy tales propogated in ancient times by people who didn't ( and sometimes, I think, did) know better.

Saudia Arabia should send them food. There are a number of American living rooms where every day mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, wives and children look at the pictures of the murdered American soilders who were bringing food to the Somalies last time they were starving and hungry (this does not imply Americans should withold aid to the tsunami victims in general, or that I would so much as send a letter to my congressmen objecting to aid to the Somalies, it is simply an observation in a chat room, a thought for discussion-kind of like brainstorming where one throws out ideas and thoughts on a situation, and then lets others evaluate them. Truth be known, if it came down to it and you said, "Dante, you can carry this box of food some miles to these hungry Somalies or let them die", I would carry the food. But I wouldn't forget the last guys that carried them food either.

I'm refering to this.

I seem to have set a lot of people to anger with me recent comments on this issue-please keep in mind this is a political forum to brainstorm about ideas & perspectives. I'm not standing in front of any real world trucks full of food, nor am I politically active in any way shape or form pretty much outside this room. My thoughts shared with GA member are harmless to living breathing human beings anywhere, especially since any of these thoughts or feeling can be easily refudiated here, immediately, by someone more knowledgable on any given topic.
I would really like to once and for all end the notion that I'm unconcerned for the real-world victims, that someones religious or ethnic background somehow makes them less human in my eyes.
That's a bunch of balarney as political discussions among some people are more about help US work through our views on complex and contradictory issues in the world and not about any of us keeping food out of peoples mouths, effectively writing law, or bearing arms in foreign wars in the real world (with the exception of any soilders in the forum).
Let's keep this in perspective so that thoughts mights continue to flow freely in a mercurian fashion an not be hobbled by any form of political correctness.

Why am I wrong? Were American soilders killed there? Was the core of their mission to effect the bringing of food? In your moral outrage against me lately you've repeated to simply say I'm wrong and not state WHY. Convince me with words and I'll stand corrected as I have humbly often in the past. Sit on a high horse and state over and over again without any reasons why I'm wrong in my perspectives and I simply loose respect for you and myself for holding you in such high esteem over the past months; the fact is, your insights and background was one of the biggest reasons I started following this forum.

Which confirms WHY I've always respected your posts. It just made a lot of us civilians angry that those people didn't kiss the ground you walked on and THANK you for helping them. Look at it from our perspective-America sends soilders to help people who are starving
and American soilders get attacked. WTF? Even the Japanese after WWII treated our guys with respect when they brought aid over.

Hmm...very sad, the only reason they would give a portion of charity to non-muslims is to hope to convert us.



Then there's these guys.

Say they're not against us, but I don't know if the world really needs more lovely little theocracies.

Okay, now you're starting to scare me...After the tsunami, there can't be many of these maroons left...mebbe there is a god after all.

I think some of this was covered in the Tsunami aid threads...but just in case it all wasn't-

Scroll down the page for the UselessNations vrs. Free & independent organizations. Scroll further and they even have the UN requesting US and Aussie air traffic controlers change to UN outfits for appearences...lest our mere presence offend native sensibilities? :whistle:

And away they go. The bodies aren't even buried yet before they're ready for more action.

The Diplomad has an update on the breathtaking level of UN duplicity in the aftermath of the tsunami.

We will focus on Indonesia, The country most affected by the quake and tsunami and the one where we were working, saw the UN up close and personal, and know best. The press release is deceptive and misleading. Its author has a future in advertising, or working for the next John Kerry campaign.

So, "20 foreign militaries lent" their assets, eh? Lent? To whom? Not to the UN, that's for sure. For at least three of the past four weeks, the UN had nothing to do with the operations of the "20 foreign militaries." The UN certainly was not directing the Aussies, who were the first ones in; they blazed the path for the rest and thousands of people owe them their lives. They weren't running the assets of the Kiwis or the Singaporeans, either, and they sure weren't running ours. Up until just a few days ago, those "20" foreign militaries were Aussies, Singaporeans, Kiwis (who've gotten little credit for the fine work they've done), and Yanks with a modest but appreciated assist as of about 10-12 days ago of the Spanish and the Pakistani militaries. The coordinating was being done by the Australians, the USA and the Indonesian military. Up until just about four or five days ago, except for the disaster tourists such as Annan and Bellamy, the UN WAS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN -- except quite overwhelmingly in Jakarta's luxury hotels, a few UNocrats in Medan, and a tiny handful at the airport in Aceh writing up press releases claiming all the credit for the UN and bad-mouthing the hard-working Aussies and Americans.

The puffery about the UN Joint Logistics Centre is just that puffery. The UNJLC, as of today, is still not completely functional in Indonesia. To be fair, they seem to have brought in some good people (some not so good) who should do a credible job coordinating the much-reduced relief activity anticipated in the days ahead as US, Australian, and New Zealand forces depart. It is not clear, however, that the Indonesian military couldn't do it alone, but, international donor politics demand a UN stamp.

And the 300 trucks? Notice how the UN press release rolls together IOM and UN. It would be akin to stating, "Between them the United States and Mexico have 12 aircraft carrier battlegroups." Technically true, but . . . The overwhelming majority of those trucks are IOM's -- arranged and paid for by USAID. The Indonesian Minister of Defense noted, January 16, "The U.S. Military [in Aceh] has been the backbone of the logistical operations providing assistance to all afflicted after the disaster. We'd like to pay tribute to the soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen of the U.S. Forces deployed in Aceh throughout the relief effort." He didn't say the UN.

The press release is vague about who provided shelter and malaria control. For good reason: the UN has done VERY little of that. USAID and the USN have done the majority of it. Same with the claim about reaching hundreds-of-thousands of people with food aid. The UN didn't do that; the Aussies and we did that. It was US, Australian, and New Zealand C-130s, and US boats (both USN and leased by USAID) that moved the food to Aceh and Medan. It was USN and USMC helos and LCACs that moved it out to the affected areas. The UN-leased helos -- paid for largely by the Japanese -- have only just begun to operate.

Let's take a quick look at the other UN document: the UN's rendition of Egeland's January 26 NY press conference. Excerpts follow...

Read the whole damn thing for an up close and personal lesson in how to spin to the media when you are particularly useless, irrelevant and in need of a David Copperfield type distraction to divert attention from the fact that you're the biggest elephant in the livingroon.