What if?

[midranger4]

I posted this elsewhere and think it might be worth exploring a bit on it's own.

Let's pretend for just a minute shall we?

If you were let's say an intelligent life form circling our planet in your little UFO and had access to all communications across the globe. What do you suppose you would be thinking right about now?

I mean look at this ENTIRE situation about terrorism, Iraq, global poverty, etc. from the perspective of a spectator with absolutely no bias because you're just kind of passing thru.

If I were that little alien in my little ship think I would look to my children who had their noses to the window in curiosity, gently direct them back to their seats, put my ship in overdrive and never look back.

Personally I think we are the Milky Way zoo and it appears the zookeepers have gone on strike.

[ethics]

With ALL of the communications being exposed to you? I tend to think you would see a lot of posturing, politics, beauracracy, hypocrisy, and despots, a slew of those.

I doubt any other intelligent life form would do things differently. Or perhaps I am limited in my own human ways to only view it that way?

[midranger4]

Think it might be worth a closer look or do you run for the hills immediately?

[ethics]

Originally posted by midranger4
Think it might be worth a closer look or do you run for the hills immediately?

Carl Sagan started preaching about how we should look for extra-terrestial life out in the space. He collected a bunch of information, including music, video's, poems, alphabets of many languages that inhabit the earth and of course horrible things like our biological samples with information.  One day, with much fanfare, he sent all of that out on one of the satellites. This small dish of a satellite is floating somewhere in space and sending out a radio signal so someone, anyone but humans, can decipher it and perhaps pull it in. Carl didn't forget to put a map of "WE ARE HERE" label--almost--either, as far as where we are in the galaxy and universe.

Many people today crunch numbers for a program for SETI, which is, in a nutshell, a program devised to crunch radio signals that are coming in from radio telescopes. All fo the very similar purpose of discovering new life.

I've always thought about the above and felt uneasy about, and very much had to do with me learning about humans and other animal forms on this planet. Why would we want to advertise where we are, what are weaknesses are, and practically invite other forms of life to come here and spank us really hard, commit one large homocide?

It is the same answer I give you. No life form is without competition, one that thrives to gain from other like, or above it. Your alien will listen and stay around as long as it is not caught, and it has gained enough for it to discern what the next possible action would be for gaining something for itself and its offsprings.

Your question was more geared towards humans, I turned it around and said, well, you know we are as bad as the next comparison to other life forms. ;)

[midranger4]

I guess I was going on the presumption that intelligent life capable of space travel would likely not be cruising the galaxies for selfish reasons.

To your point such a presumption may quite possibly be incorrect.

That's an even scarier thought.

Here we are just knocking the crap out of one another fighting over natural resources, money, power, etc and in swoops ET and blasts all our asses because he decides he likes daffodils and doesn't want to share them.

Man we are screwed. LOL

[ethics]

Originally posted by midranger4
[B]I guess I was going on the presumption that intelligent life capable of space travel would likely not be cruising the galaxies for selfish reasons.

Why else? ;)

To your point such a presumption may quite possibly be incorrect.

Of course.

Here we are just knocking the crap out of one another fighting over natural resources, money, power, etc and in swoops ET and blasts all our asses because he decides he likes daffodils and doesn't want to share them.


My thoughts actually and I know I am in the minority on this. Can you imagine me proposing such a theory in the SETI forums? Talk about screwed... ;)

[valgore]

if any alien life form was to travel to this planet then they would obviously be far more advance than us. they would probably have a history similar to ours, that is, they went through the growing pains of technology and came close to destroying themselves as we have done. so they would have a good idea about were we are at and were we are heading. I don't think they would be confused or shocked over us, they would probably think "been there done that"

[ShinyTop]

Pacifists, stay at home types did not discover anything on this planet. I know that to project human qualities on potential beings from outer space is not necessarily smart, but since I can only think like a human I will accept that.

And Ethics, that is why I do SETI, so we have some warning. A potential visit/invasion from outer space might serve to unite us!

[Misu]

Well, I've a recent Lexxian, so if I were flying around on the Lexx (with Kai :love: ) I would examine all the information, say "tsk tsk, stupid little class 13 planet is going to go POP very soon, and they're fighting over stupidities - here, let me just put them out of their misery." and instruct Lexx to eat the planet - he'll need the fuel :nut:

[valgore]

shiny, I agree that we are limited by our own experiences in the way we think, but I can't help but believe that any intelligent alien life form would posess "human qualities" the fact that they would explore space is a human quality in itself. it's like we are more evolved and intelligent than the caveman but we still share many attributes of the caveman. I think it would be the same with an alien life form, but we are the cavemen!

[Frodo Lives]

Originally posted by ShinyTop


And Ethics, that is why I do SETI, so we have some warning. A potential visit/invasion from outer space might serve to unite us!
Agreed. I always said it would take an alien invasion before people stopped thinking of themselves as citizens of a country and started thinking of themselves as citizens of the planet Earth. Anyone remember that movie 'Independence Day'?

[midranger4]

The movie "The Abyss" (which is actually one of my all time favorite movies) has a very interesting plot line from the perspective of the *aliens*.

They seemed unable to accept the great pain and suffering we inflict upon ourselves and were prepared to destroy us as a result. Only after Bud shows the good that humans can do is the decision made to spare humanity.

The special edition DVD has about 30 extra minutes added to the encounter between Ed Harris (Bud) and the aliens that I found fascinating. It was an interesting concept that's for sure.

Then about a month ago I watch "Signs" with Mel Gibson and an entirely different scenario is depicted. Basically we are LUNCH for the aliens !

All I know is on a clear summer night there is nothing I enjoy more than laying on the ground/beach/whatever and looking to the skies.

It is extremely difficult for me to think that we are the center of the universe when looking at the countless stars that in most cases are likely surrounded by countless planets.

I actually find it awe inspiring and quite humbling.

[ethics]

As do I, but I am also human.

I doubt we are alone. I even doubt we are the smartest or the most wise, or even close to being up there.

However, if we are, in fact, discovered, I honestly can not think of it as a positive.

[midranger4]

I'm gonna sleep well tonight you eterenal optimist.

THANKS !

:)

[ethics]

LOL! What can I tell you.

Want a real scare? And I mean this, this book scared me (and I am very hard to scare). Read The Forge of God (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0765301075/qid=1047444021/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-5763960-0159303?v=glance&s=books)
by Greg Bear.

I just looked up a link and wanted to quote a recent reviewer by a reader:

One of the best SF novels I have read, September 18, 2001
 Reviewer: cmpst52 (see more about me) from Pittsburgh, PA United States  
 
I have read quite a few Stephen King, or other, horror novels. I yawned my way through them.

This novel, about the impending destruction of the Earth in an alien invasion, gave me NIGHTMARES. It seemed more real than any other novel I've read in years.

This story seems so real, and is so fast paced, I read it in a matter of hours over only two days. It terrified me in a way no other book ever has. Greg Bear wrote perhaps the best alien-invasion novel ever.

And I wouldn't say the ending is dues ex machina. Yes, the cavalry comes -- but to what effect? I don't want to spoil the end, but suffice to say, Bear doesn't wimp out at any point, and pulls few punches... if any.

Get it. Get up early some morning and read it in one day. Then, know what a true horror story is.  

   

   

 

[midranger4]

I ain't reading that book...NO WAY.

It will ruin my summer nights looking to the stars !!!

[Frodo Lives]

Wow, that book looks good. I think I will read it.

[Fiona]

I think they'd see a lot of squabbling idiots... wonder why the dogs in charge allow us to act this way... and keep moving for more intelligent life :)

[SixofNine]

Originally posted by midranger4
If you were let's say an intelligent life form circling our planet in your little UFO and had access to all communications across the globe. What do you suppose you would be thinking right about now?

"I think the guy from Alabama is going to win American Idol." :nut:

By the way, Greg Bear rocks!  He's my favorite futurist.  Hey Ethics, "Forge of God" and its sequel "Anvil of the Stars" are being made into movies by Warner Brothers.  Also try "Eon," its sequel "Eternity," and the prequel "Legacy."

He also does a great job with near-future visions of societies with nano-technology in "Queen of Angels" and its sequel "Slant."

He takes the idea that evolution occurs in sudden leaps rather than in a slow steady manner and turns that into a great novel, "Darwin's Radio."

"Blood Music," "Moving Mars," "Hegira," "Strength of Stones," etc.,  they're all good.

Brian

[rowd]

I think Carl Sagan said it best:

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, Random House, 1994


<small>Caption
It was Carl Sagan's idea to turn Voyager's camera back toward the planet that launched the spacecraft in order to reveal to that planet's inhabitants their "true circumstance and condition." After much resistance, Dr. Sagan prevailed, and on February 14, 1990, from a distance of 6.4 billion kilometers, Voyager 1 captured this image of our Earth. Here the entire world fills only 0.12 pixel and appears as a tiny crescent of light. The apparent rays of light are not sunbeams, but scattering off the camera's optics, a result of pointing it so close to the Sun. Now one of the most famous images ever taken from space, this humbling perspective of our beloved home is a part of Dr. Sagan's invaluable legacy. Image: JPL/NASA</small>

[Paladin]

Originally posted by midranger4
I guess I was going on the presumption that intelligent life capable of space travel would likely not be cruising the galaxies for selfish reasons.
There are NO unselfish reasons. Everything anyone can possibily do is done for selfish reasons.

Why do we help children grow up to be what we consider to be good citizens? Because when they have grown they will also reach out and help others -- with those others including us or our children. (you could be the nasty and try to destroy everyone else -- but that line always fails in the long run.)

Your aliens would likewise be here to help. They may already be here -- you have to let a child make his/her own mistakes since they really cannot learn otherwise.

[ethics]

Six, I've read the sequel, but the original was MUCH better. It scared me, it really did. Darwin's Radio was fantastic not only from an evolutionary point of view but also with psychological/political as well.

Paladin, that's basically what I was trying to convey. Another man promoted his theory on our beings. Richard Dawkin's Selfish Gene is a tremendous read and explains what you have stated above.

Rowd, Carl Sagan was a great man, I admired him as much as I loathed his idea of sending "WE ARE HERE" disc. His Candle in the Dark is an awesome read as well on the stupidity in superstition and the evolution of it.

[IamZed]

I read Selfish Gene again three months ago. It is my favorite book about why we do what we do.