Motorcycle Lesson #1

[ethics]

What did he do wrong here? It's very identifiable and a newbie mistake:


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[Biker]

He ended up exactly where he was looking. :haha:

[ethics]

He ended up exactly where he was looking. :haha:

No, not that easy. The hint is audible. ;)

[ethics]

Ok, same bike, different rider, same mistake:

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[MNeedham73]

I'm hearing the engine rev up right before they go down. Figured it was the tire losing traction though.

[ethics]

I'm hearing the engine rev up right before they go down. Figured it was the tire losing traction though.


The first one is much more so though. What is rule#1 during a turn? No sudden accelerations or decelerations. You are not even supposed to touch the clutch but slow before the turn/curve, look where you want to go, lean, and rolllllllllllllll the throttle. These guys didn't roll the throttle but opened it up a bit.

The second guy's new bike, as the comments said, Armor All Crash but he did help it go down by revving.

[ethics]

Super duper easy example of this... I LOLED. ;)

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[MNeedham73]

Yeah, that one is obvious lol

[dsl987]

Looks like they were also the victim of cold tires as well as poor throttle control. Once warmed up those sport bike tires hold very well.

[Arc]

...and rolllllllllllllll the throttle. These guys didn't roll the throttle but opened it up a bit.



What exactly do you mean by "rolllllllllllllll the thottle?"

[MNeedham73]

Meaning giving the bike throttle in a gentle, controlled manner and not goosing it.

[dsl987]

What exactly do you mean by "rolllllllllllllll the thottle?"

Roll it open slowly instead of snapping it open. Gentle is the key.

[Arc]

Meaning giving the bike throttle in a gentle, controlled manner and not goosing it.

I interpret "giving the bike throttle" in a turn, which is what I understood ethics was saying the bike was in means increasing RPM and speed while in the turn--no?

[ethics]

The engine doesn't make that noise when you roll it. There's a gradual increment of power and audio. All of the above didnt do that. They "goosed" it which can be fatal if you do that at a sharp curve going 60mph.

[Kluge]

I interpret "giving the bike throttle" in a turn, which is what I understood ethics was saying the bike was in means increasing RPM and speed while in the turn--no?

In riding school and in the books they emphasize that the effective diameter of the tire is less when the bike is leaned way over. The tire profile is round, not square like a car's, and each degree of lean angle results in the tire rolling on a part of the tread that is closer to the axle.

Adding some throttle compensates for the change in final drive ratio due to the lean.

I think that's for sporty riders riding sporty-ly.

[Arc]

The engine doesn't make that noise when you roll it. There's a gradual increment of power and audio. All of the above didnt do that. They "goosed" it which can be fatal if you do that at a sharp curve going 60mph.

Sorry, I'm not following. I'm not asking my question clearly probably. If one is driving down the road in a bike and going through a sustained turn at a near max speed for the turn they should do what with the brakes and throttle while in the turn?

[ethics]

James nailed the physics of it.

If one is driving down the road in a bike and going through a sustained turn at a near max speed for the turn they should do what with the brakes and throttle while in the turn?

BEFORE the turn, brake, while IN the turn, roll the throttle.

[Arc]

BEFORE the turn, brake, while IN the turn, roll the throttle.

So would it be accurate to say you roll the throttle to MAINTAIN a constant speed and power or torque curve envelope throughout the turn?

I like bikes. I am too beat up to be able to ride one now though. In 1970 I was invited to go dirt bike riding. I had never been on one before and they were a lot different then than now! By a country mile. (Ever hear of a compression release.) I was told by the regular bikers that I really a natural. I wasn't so sure as I was always spitting out a mouthful of dirt after crashing or falling. (If you DO KNOW what a compression release it and experienced the suspensions of the old bikes you understand.)

On the street in my limited use of a bike back in 1971--a very light low powered one, I really liked it and drove it flat out. I once dumped it because as I made max speed sharp left turn on a four lane road one of the pedals caught the road and sent me and the bike sliding up the street in the lane with oncoming traffic. Fortunately there was no cars coming or I would have been a grease spot.

In my limited use on a freeway I must admit I was intimidated by cars--and back in those days not much intimidated me. I've always regretted mildly that I didn't buy a decent street bike and give it a try all though even the best in decades past were quite a bit below the handling or performance capabilities of today's bikes. But a LOT cheaper it seems. Tough to tell without adjusting for inflation I guess.

[Kluge]

I could accidentally break the rear tire loose on my 250cc by sloppy downshifting, did it more than once unintentionally. I'm sure any bike could skid when all the traction is used up, too, due to any oil stain or whatever.

My question is, at this point, are the superbikes torqued to the point that a wrist-spasm at any speed cause a skid? H horsepower at R final drive ratio is always T torque, isn't it? It would seem like there is a limit to useful hp because there is a practical upper limit to traction in high gear, even if you can chirp the tires the rest of the way up. Then, if you match engine speed to road speed, the bottom of your RPM range in high gear at your highest cruising speed should be the highest gear ratio you ever need and then that would determine the absolute useful torque limit for your ride. So where do the Ninjas, Hyabusas & all that stand at sane speeds, like, 70 MPH (the highest speed limit I recall seeing anywhere in my real life)?

[ethics]

My question is, at this point, are the superbikes torqued to the point that a wrist-spasm at any speed cause a skid?Depends on the make/model.

So where do the Ninjas, Hyabusas & all that stand at sane speeds, like, 70 MPH (the highest speed limit I recall seeing anywhere in my real life)?

It's basically like this, James.

The most user friendly bike, the most forgiving is Honda's CBR's. The least is the Kawasaki. I've tried to find a good example of what I am talking about and while this video does a good job it's not anywhere near 60% of what I am talking about here.

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After watching the video, the Kawis are VERY unforgiving in the ride and mistakes. You throw don't roll the throttle on the turn, you will pay, where as the CBR is very forgiving and very newbie friendly. CBR's are also the most stolen bikes from the supersport category (and I think THE most stolen bike out of all bikes but have to research that).

The Ninja's clutch is adjustable, I am surprised the LAT reporter didn't know that and adjust it to fit her needs. Meaning she could have unwound the clutch and make it engage further away. My Yama's clutch was way too far and I moved it closer on the squeeze.

Riding at 70mph or 80 as I do nowadays when the road allows me to, it's ALL about the balance on the straightaway. People think it's easy and under perfect conditions it's not hard. BUT, I've not encountered perfect conditions in my limited time riding. There's always wind, there's always idiots on the road, there's always some gravel and edge traps to look out for. So countersteering, meaning the rider's ability to ride is 95% more important than any differences between the bikes. This goes for any bike, including cruisers.

I wish I could explain the feeling here as well but you need to ride each of these bikes (as I did recently) to understand their differences.

One reason I wouldn't want to go to a CBR, however, is that a rider who is used to a forgiving CBR, would not make a successful migration to a Yama, or a Kawi, or Suzuki. They are so forgiving that the rider expects the bike to do a lot of the adjustments.

I chose a Yama which is slightly above a Kawi in the forgiveness factor as a starter bike. As many of my MC's members stated, if you know how to ride a Kawi or a Yama, for the first 600 miles, you can ride any bike out there on the supersport circuit. Some of these guys even race their bikes on weekends on a race track--which is something I MAY try out next year.



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