How did Jesus heal the sick?

[Robert Harris]

A claim is made by researchers that he used marijuana!

Excerpts:

Cannabis linked to Biblical healing

Many of the miracles concerned healing Jesus Christ and his apostles may have used a cannabis-based anointing oil to help cure people with crippling diseases, it has been claimed.

Researchers in the United States say the oil used in the early days of the Christian church contained a cannabis extract called kaneh-bosem.

They suggest the extract, which is absorbed into the body when placed on the skin, could have helped cure people with a variety of physical and mental problems.
In a response to the article published on JesusJournal.com, critics said: "As many of us know firsthand, Jesus often becomes the final hope for the pharmacologically impaired."

John Cunyus, the author of a book on Christian healing, said: "Well, the Bible does say that St. Stephen was stoned... but perhaps not in that sense!"

More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm

Perhaps I should note that the research is reported in High Times,m not noted for objectivity about the use of pot. Still, interesting because the herb aapparently has been used for healing in some places at some times, apparently successfully. :)

[ethics]

Related to the topic but slightly OT, but my understanding of the times during which Jesus lived through was that there were many people who were making miracles happen?

[Robert Harris]

I am not sure, but it seems plausible. Just as today a number of fundamentalist preachers claim to heal the sick, etc.

Use of marijuans also has an ancient history. If my memory serves me right, Herodotus reports that the Scythians used it, burning it in vessels of some sort and inhaling the fumes.

[Coot]

Originally posted by Robert Harris
I am not sure, but it seems plausible. Just as today a number of fundamentalist preachers claim to heal the sick, etc.

I seem to remember several years ago that Oral Roberts nearly went bankrupt selling LP records of his sermons....it seems the hole in the middle of the record kept healing up. ;)

[Robert Harris]

He must have been smoking pot when he recorded them. :)

[Steve]

Superstition has reigned supreme for most of recorded history. It hasn't been until relatively recent times, say the mid- to late-1700's that things such as ghosts, witches, etc. stopped being widely accepted as real entities in the Western world. The eastern world has long had its pantheon of spirits, sprites, djinn, etc. I guess what I'm getting at is that prior to modern times, when science and technology have allowed for a better understanding of the world, by the masses, people were more gullible, more prone to believe just about anything that couldn't be immediately disproven.

I have to wonder how many afflictions mentioned in the Bible could have been attributed to this frame of mind, this overpower belief in superstition so strong as to cause people to speak in tongues, carry themselves as if crippled, or act in self-desttructive ways?

And perhaps Jesus was just the man to come along and say "Get up, you're not crippled!"

[valgore]

I remember reading a story in the bible about a woman who went running up behind jesus, she fell to her knees and reached out and grabbed him, the deciples seeing this thought the woman was attacking Jesus, so they grabbed her. Jesus turned around and asked the woman why she had done that and she replied " I just knew that if I touched you I would be healed" Jesus said " Go, your faith has healed thyself"

So Jesus didn't heal that woman, She healed herself. and that is what Jesus preached about the most, the power of faith. or to put it into more contemporary terms; The power of the mind. Whether or not jesus used cannibis or anything else is really beside the point, the bible states that jesus performed miracles so that his words might be believed. it's not what he did that needs to be studied but rather what he said!!

[bruzzes]

I have seen sugar pills and placebos perform miracles.

I have seen "Holy Men" perform operations that heal the sick.

Perhaps it is the conscienceness of man that limits him in these areas.

Just a thought...

Man creates and lives in his creations. The world believes in sickness, old age and death. These may be man-made concepts created by a limited sight. If one could move past this self imposed limitation, to the true source within, perhaps one could superceed the restraints of these concepts.

As valgore mentioned, belief, that is total belief, with every cell and thought holding to that power may possibly remove the concept of that particular illness.

Miracle? Or is it the release of Ignorance?

[Steve]

"..the release of Ignorance".....what a marvelous phrase, bruzzes, I must try to remember that.

The release of ignorance. It sums up quite nicely what I was trying (poorly) to get at and, I believe, meshes nicely with valgore's comments and the traditional teachings of "faith" being behind the actual working of miracles.

The release of ignorance....applicable on so many other levels, too.

[ethics]

Originally posted by valgore
So Jesus didn't heal that woman, She healed herself. and that is what Jesus preached about the most, the power of faith. or to put it into more contemporary terms; The power of the mind.

Compelling post, Valgore.

I tend to agree that our mind has cabalities to heal as much as to hurt. Many of the "powers" of the mind are yet to be researched but as Bruzz pointed out, a good start would be in the placebo studies.

[jamming]

I believe that he healed the sick with a smile, the simple act of concern, and the love of God.

I have some of the ancient annoiting oil you may be talking about it. It is not from Modern Marijuana, anymore than hemp is Modern Marijuana.

[jfcjrus]

Originally posted by bruzzes
I have seen sugar pills and placebos perform miracles.

I have seen "Holy Men" perform operations that heal the sick.

Perhaps it is the conscienceness of man that limits him in these areas.

Just a thought...

Man creates and lives in his creations. The world believes in sickness, old age and death. These may be man-made concepts created by a limited sight. If one could move past this self imposed limitation, to the true source within, perhaps one could superceed the restraints of these concepts.

As valgore mentioned, belief, that is total belief, with every cell and thought holding to that power may possibly remove the concept of that particular illness.

Miracle? Or is it the release of Ignorance?
Boy, this is going to be a hard post for me. A little too revealing, if you will.

But, I've got to ask:
You wouldn't be a Christian Scientist would you? The reason I ask, is that my wife, of 35 years, is. (And I was thrown out of the Catholic Church for marrying such a pagan! ;) )

But, what you posted sounds very similiar to their tenants.
Basically:
God is perfect.
Man was made in the image and likeness of God.
Therefore, man is perfect.
Does anyone picture God being sick?

Yea, I know. A piss poor summary of their beliefs. But, what do you expect from an admitted agnostic?

But, I'll tell you this.
Over 35 years, I've personally seen some pretty remarkable shit.
Some doctors, in the great hospitals in Boston, chaulk it up to 'will to live', as, medically, they have no explaination.

Power of God?
Power of praying to Jesus (God's son)?

Or, the POWER of the human MIND, 'Focused' via religious beliefs?

I dunno.
But, I do know that I've lived thru several events that were truly remarkable.

It simply makes one wonder.
I suspect that we have no idea just how much we don't understand.

Regards,

[ethics]

I never knew that was what a Christian Scientist is?

[jfcjrus]

Originally posted by ethics
I never knew that was what a Christian Scientist is?
Yipes!
Don't go by MY definition, pal!
I'm not a member of their Church.

It's just that I have seen them ask their 'practitioners' (those members that have this shit figured out?) to help them in terrible times.

And, the cause of the terrible times ceases to exist. Did their participation help? I dunno.

But, you live thru enough of this stuff, over 35 years, and you begin to wonder if 'something' is going on.

And, NO, they are not one of those 'sects' that REFUSE medical help when they're sick. (At least I've never seen this). It's just that if they need medical help, then they feel that really don't have their shit together, yet.
So, fix me up doc, I've got some more studying to do.

I told you my post was difficult for me to do. In part, because I mentioned the beliefs of some folks that I truly respect, but, of which I know very little.

I meant it an example of how little we may know about the 'healing' process.

Regards,

[bruzzes]

Originally posted by jfcjrus

But, I've got to ask:
You wouldn't be a Christian Scientist would you? The reason I ask, is that my wife, of 35 years, is. (And I was thrown out of the Catholic Church for marrying such a pagan! ;) )

But, what you posted sounds very similar to their tenants.
Basically:
God is perfect.
Man was made in the image and likeness of God.
Therefore, man is perfect.
Does anyone picture God being sick?

Yea, I know. A piss poor summary of their beliefs. But, what do you expect from an admitted agnostic?

But, I'll tell you this.
Over 35 years, I've personally seen some pretty remarkable shit.
Some doctors, in the great hospitals in Boston, chalk it up to 'will to live', as, medically, they have no explanation.

Power of God?
Power of praying to Jesus (God's son)?

Or, the POWER of the human MIND, 'Focused' via religious beliefs?

I dunno.
But, I do know that I've lived thru several events that were truly remarkable.

It simply makes one wonder.
I suspect that we have no idea just how much we don't understand.

Regards,

Sorry for not editing your post in the quote above but I could not find anything much to edit.

No, I am not a member of the Christian Scientists. My beliefs have been taken from many world religions melded together in a simplistic core tenet. I believe in a God, be he called Allah, Yahweh, Buddha or Christ. The name does not matter for it is not the name that is important to me but what they teach. Not the man laws, or the book laws but the words that lie beneath the letters.

My strange belief is that we are all a part of God. It is the dual mind that separates us from that recognition. Thinking ourselves separate is the Ignorance I spoke of in my post.
Your syllogism is therefore correct.
If God is perfect
and we are a part of God
Then we are perfect.

The reason we do not appear to be perfect is because the inner light within ourselves are covered in layers of ignorance. Some call it Maya, illusion, ego etc. These layers which we create imperfectly is what is called sickness, old age and death. Since we have created these concepts we are limited by our belief in their power over us.

A belief in a higher power can sometimes pierce a hole in these layers and give us a glimpse of who we really are.

Again, this is the concept that I presently believe in.
Whether it is a universal truth for all, I cannot say. I would never presume to make such a statement for others.

Whether Jesus healed by this removal of Ignorance or not, the belief that he could was all that was necessary for one to heal themselves.

[jfcjrus]

Bruzzes,

Thanks for the response.
I find it remarkable that you've come to the conclusions (so far) that you have, due to dilligent study of 'what's out there'.
Well done. And good luck in trying to piece all this together.

Although agnostic about it all, I do believe that there's SOMETHING here that we don't understand. I've seen it too often to ignore.

Sometimes (as the thought of the origional post in this thread), I wonder if 'some' folks a couple of thousand years ago understood something that we, today, don't. I also think I've met 'some' folks today that understand it. But, it seems hard for them to explain it to a dumbshit, like me. Perhaps my mind is too polluted with perceived 'reality'? I dunno.

Did the use of marijuana (or the like) enable folks to 'focus' the mind to accomplish remarkable things? Perhaps.
I've seen enough, in my lifetime, to suspect that there's somthing going on that we can't define.

So, we continue the quest of enlightenment.

Thanks again, for the response.
Regards,

[mikepd]

Bruzzes, you have come very close to the same conclusions I have regarding belief in God and what lies after this existence.

jfcjrus, since my birth, I have beat the odds from a medical standpoint and the doctors are at a loss to fully explain why. They told my mother things like '9 out of 10 children are profoundly retarded and do not live out their teen years and should be institutionalized'. Well, for someone who recently turned 50, was tested at 14 with a Stanford-Binnet IQ test and scored 138 and spent over 20 years as an x-ray tech doing general, CT and angiography, not too bad.

There is certainly something to be said for Eastern views of religion and philosophy. In my mind, I am proof that there is more than can be explained by science alone. Mere science would have had me unable to have these wonderful discussions with all of you a long time ago and as most recently as 1994, when I should have died twice. Again by all that modern medicine knows, failing that, I should have had the mental capacity of something on the order of an over done vegetable. I continue to seek knowledge and am glad I can share things here.

Mike

[bruzzes]

Originally posted by mikepd

There is certainly something to be said for Eastern views of religion and philosophy. In my mind, I am proof that there is more than can be explained by science alone. Mere science would have had me unable to have these wonderful discussions with all of you a long time ago and as most recently as 1994, when I should have died twice. Again by all that modern medicine knows, failing that, I should have had the mental capacity of something on the order of an over done vegetable. I continue to seek knowledge and am glad I can share things here.

Mike

While I have been busy trying to share my child-like knowledge of Eastern religions, I have never abandoned the Western Religions entirely either. There are still some anomalies I have yet to perceive.

One case in point is karma.
If we are a result of karmic thinking then we experience the results of past actions.
This could be applied to your physical condition in this lifetime.

Some would even state that your condition is the result of your actions in a past lifetime.

In the bible, there is a story that when asked of Jesus what sins were upon this man to make him blind, Jesus replied that perhaps there was no sin. Perhaps he is where he is to show the glory of God.

This revelation leads me to believe that a power greater than Karma exists that can heal and make us whole.
That power is the part of God within us that can overcome the limitations we foolishly put ourselves in and occasionally shows forth. The will to survive and overcome those limitations are not concrete in nature but abstract. If abstract, they must come from a source. What greater source than that of God himself?

I continue to pray for the release of pain for you mike.
I started those prayers way back in another thread after your bout with the outside leave raking. I do believe in prayer. It is a communication with the essence of who we really are.

I hope you are feeling better.

[ethics]

Bruzz,

What if you have a good physical state this lifetime, and lead a noble, yet not heroic life, what physical state will you have the next one?

[bruzzes]

Good question ethics.

It is the evolution of the soul or spirit that is the purpose behind reincarnation and karmic lessons not the physical conveyance.
Whereas the body may be an object used in this teaching of the soul it is not the primary benefactor that is the determining factor.

In mike's case it may be the lesson that the spirit can overcome the body's limitation. Hence, the saying "Physician, heal yourself" is not a retort but a lesson to the soul.

[ethics]

Originally posted by bruzzes


In mike's case it may be the lesson that the spirit can overcome the body's limitation. Hence, the saying "Physician, heal yourself" is not a retort but a lesson to the soul.

Yes.

I consider myself one of the lucky ones to be aware of Mike's conditions, and even more blessed knowing him. I rarely mention this but people like him inspire me, they make me put away many doubts of humanity.

Perhaps his spirit is not only a lesson for him only.

[bruzzes]

Originally posted by ethics


Perhaps his spirit is not only a lesson for him only.

( smile )

By Jove I think you've got it!

The lessons are always all around us.
It is our attention to them that is lacking.

I remember that I use to always go to the park (a wooded area) with the sole purpose of getting away from home and having fun with the kids. It served it's purpose then.

When the kids were old enough and it was only my wife and myself we saw a deer. This surprised the heck out of us and we promptly went out to buy binoculars. To our amazement everywhere we went there was wildlife around. The place was positively crowded with them. I cannot believe we never saw them before. They were always there, but our attention never focused on them.

Maybe this is what is meant by the phrase, "When the pupil is ready the master appears".
The "master" is always around. We just may not notice him in the guise of our neighbor, or the kid down the street or the perfect stranger who jolts our attention to a new insight.

Something to think about...

[ethics]

Great stuff Bruzz. :)

[mikepd]

Stop and smell the roses while you can. Let those you care about know how you feel about them, try hard to settle differences before the opportunity is lost forever. Make each day a better day for you having passed this way.

Stop and smell the roses.

[Wacko]

Food for thought:

Found in the King James Bible: Mathew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, if ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountian, remove hence to yonder place: and it shall remove: and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Jesus was responding to his disciples when asked why they could not cast out the devil. Now whether or not you believe in God, Jesus, or the devil you must admit that Jesus knew something about belief/faith, and what it could do.

I believe faith had allot to do with Jesus healing people.

[ethics]

No doubt in my mind. But the question for me is, did HE heal them, or did they heal themselves?

[midranger4]

I think Jesus healed them in a sense yes. His steadfast faith clearly helped others to realize their own inner faith and subsequently powers to heal.

I am a believer that the mind is something we know very little about to this very day, capable of many things beyond our current levels of understanding.

It would not be out of the realm of my possibilities that some people can tap areas of the mind and perform what could easily be construed as a *miracle*.

Jesus was a kind and gentle soul capable of reaching into the very souls of people when he spoke. He built a following based on these traits. Considering communication methods at the time of his life were basically non-existent I think the apostles took some liberties and embellished a bit with their *gospels* and as a result it is difficult to extract actual events from perceived events in many cases.

[Wacko]

Maybe a little of both ethics. Jesus preached allot about having faith, and they believed in him, so they had faith. Hope I explained that right, lol.

[ethics]

Yah, you and Mid both explained as to what I alluding to and I happen to agree with both of you.

[Wacko]

Mid explained it better than I did...:P

[jfcjrus]

Originally posted by ethics
No doubt in my mind. But the question for me is, did HE heal them, or did they heal themselves?
From what I've seen in my life, I do believe you're on the right track.

Perhaps we ALL have the ability to heal ourselves, if we only knew how to 'focus' on the truth and not be distracted with what we daily perceive to be reality?
(Whew! That thought should be enough to give you a headache!)

Perhaps Jesus understood all this, and was trying to figure out a way to teach this to the 'masses'.
So, perhaps, he considered the development and beliefs of the time and thought;
"Alright, you dumbshits, focus on ME. Believe in ME (I'll be the the Son of GOD!). Believe that 'I' can do all this remarkable stuff".
He, perhaps, figured that if he can 'teach' the folks to <i>focus</i> on more than their pitiful plight in life, then they'll get to 'thinking' and then <i>understand</i> that the 'power is within themselves.

A good plan.
Unfortunately, he underestimated the laziness of humans to think for themselves and what resulted was a following that did not <i>think</i> beyond their daily plight, and began to chant that he was actually the son of God.

And then they killed him, before he could further elaborate upon what he was trying to teach.

It seems, to me, that every 'religion', at it's core, has someone like this. I think these founders truly 'understood' what it's all about. And they try to 'teach' this understanding to the masses via what they think the masses, of the time, will understand.

But, we masses continue to twist these teachings to justify and further our own topical goal of the moment .

So, I believe that the founder, of damn near any religion you can name, was trying to teach us that the power (healing, and more) is within ourselves.
But, politics and greed has polluted the lessons.

Damn! What a rant, eh?

Anyway, I wish us all good luck in our quest to understand it all.

Regards,

[ethics]

Wow man, that was tremendous!!!

[jfcjrus]

Originally posted by ethics
Wow man, that was tremendous!!!
Well, ya, if was so good, where's my buck?
j/k
(sorry, I couldn't resist) ;)

Regards,

[ethics]

Here's two. :)

[Sacchiridites]

Whew!
I have my theories. So did Norman Vincent Peale.

Couple of theories:
1) Marijuana is the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. ack.
2) The strength of the human mind is not completely discovered... we use 10% of our brain capacity? yup.. did Jesus have further capacity since he was part God?

Oh, an an old Native American Indian woman told me that the cure for arthritis is that in your youth, take a HUGE bud (she didn't specify which genus), put it in a jar of isopropyl alcohol, seal it tightly and in your old age, use it as a balm.

Cie