Treatment of Israel Strikes An Alien Note

[Sierra Mike]

Penned just for you by the ineffable Alan Dershowitz:

If a visitor from a far away galaxy were to land at an American or Canadian university and peruse some of the petitions that were circulating around the campus, he would probably come away with the conclusion that the Earth is a peaceful and fair planet with only one villainous nation determined to destroy the peace and to violate human rights.

That nation would not be Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Russia or Iran. It would be Israel. There are currently petitions circulating on most North American university campuses that would seek to have universities terminate all investments in companies that do business in or with Israel. There are also petitions asking individual faculty members to boycott scientists and scholars who happen to be Israeli Jews, regardless of their personal views on the Arab-Israeli conflict. There have been efforts, some successful, to prevent Israeli speakers from appearing on college campuses, as recently occurred at Concordia University. There are no comparable petitions seeking any action against other countries that enslave minorities, imprison dissidents, murder political opponents and torture suspected terrorists. Nor are there any comparable efforts to silence speakers from other countries.Read all about it at Of Israel and Aliens (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1102/alien_visit.asp)

SM

[ethics]

After thousands of years, the Jews are still paying for being the underdog.

[Sierra Mike]

Pretty much, yes. Though the US is paying for it in dollars, too. :)

SM

[Basilio]

Steve, let me first tackle the speech to Concordia University. I am actually an Alumnus of Concordia. You did not mention the identity of the speaker as Benjamin Netanyahu and did not mention that it was a closed Jews only conference, no gentiles, so no one could question Netenyahu there. I think those pertinent facts should have been present in your presentation.
Of course, there are violations of rights all over the world, but many countries do not have much importance in our national discourse as much as Israel. Of course, the violation of peoples' rights should be heard. I do recall though there were many petitions regarding East Timor when it was under occupation.
Back to Israel, it pulls on the religious feeling of many people in the world Christian, Jewish and Muslim. So you are talking about 3 plus billion people in the world.
Also, the United States and Canada both have important Jewish and Muslim minorities. The former wields a lot of economic power collectively and the latter is growing and is tied to a large global religious group, so why should you be surprised that Israel would be mentioned so much? I would like to hear more about Angola's blood diamonds, but no one on the right or left mentions that. And the liberals react to some extent to what the right talks about and they care for Israel, so there is a relationship in thought....

Those are my thoughts on that...
Wish for peace to both peoples....
And end of Arabic and Jewish
hypocricies and hostilities

[Sierra Mike]

Steve, let me first tackle the speech to Concordia University. I am actually an Alumnus of Concordia. You did not mention the identity of the speaker as Benjamin Netanyahu and did not mention that it was a closed Jews only conference, no gentiles, so no one could question Netenyahu there. I think those pertinent facts should have been present in your presentation.

Hey Basilio,

Pound sand, bro...I just posted the article for perusal. I didn't write it, but of course, merely by posting such, you automatically presume I am in full agreement and in complete support.

Don't like the article? Send Dershowitz a letter. Just make sure you run it past Leopoldo first for a spell check, all right?

SM

[ethics]

Originally posted by Basilio
Steve, let me first tackle the speech to Concordia University. I am actually an Alumnus of Concordia. You did not mention the identity of the speaker as Benjamin Netanyahu and did not mention that it was a closed Jews only conference, no gentiles, so no one could question Netenyahu there. I think those pertinent facts should have been present in your presentation.

Total and utter rubbish.

Which kills a lot of credibility you might have with the rest of your post.


It doesn't take much to spark a fight between Arab and Jewish students at Concordia University these days. Sometimes food will suffice.

Last Wednesday, two days after their campus was shaken by violent protests over the Middle East, student clubs at Concordia put out their colourful tables for orientation week.

One table was operated by a Palestinian student group offering key chains and pamphlets that were critical of Israel. At another were students from the Jewish group Hillel, who were offering falafel and other items.

Suddenly, a representative from the Palestinian table stepped up to the Hillel table. He accused the Jewish group of cultural theft for selling falafel.

'Hillel is stealing Arab food,' he shouted in the crowded hall.

The fact that a snack food could become a symbol of cultural imperialism says a lot about the state of Jewish-Arab relations at Concordia.

The street protests that stopped former Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu from delivering a speech on Monday thrust the campus conflict into public view. But the ingredients had been simmering for a long time.

For years, Concordia has been turned into a mini-Middle East, divided by the upheavals tearing at Israel and the Arab world.
On one side is a group called the Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights, which has advanced its cause with a stream of provocative speakers, posters, protests and exhibits critical of Israel.

On the other are many Jewish students who say the group has created a climate of intolerance and intimidation on campus.
If Concordia University has fallen under the shadow of convulsions in the Middle East, its student profile partly explains why. Fed in part by recent waves of immigrants and refugees from Arab countries, Concordia is now home to an estimated 5,000 Muslim students, one-fifth of the student body. Another 1,500 to 2,000 students are Jewish. And both groups have been caught in the aftermath of the second intifada (uprising) in September, 2000.

Read all about it. (http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/120)

Some more insteresting quotes:

From the moment word about the speech began to spread, protesters on the Palestinian side vowed to shut it down. In the days before Mr. Netanyahu's arrival, a notice was circulated among Montreal's Muslim and leftist Web sites, announcing that a 'peaceful protest' would be organized to counter the event. At the same time, the announcement made it clear that 'the intention of this demonstration is to stop Netanyahu from speaking.'




Having you there as an alumni certainly explains your rabid pro Palestinian stance. Of course, it doesn't do much for your credibility when you spew crap like it was only for Jews only.

[Sierra Mike]

Damn man, that brought tears to my eyes! all four of 'em...last time that happened, I saw Lyon nekkid.

SM

[Basilio]

Steve, you said you posted it simply for perusal. The title you gave to the thread lends credence to the idea that you essentially agree with the writer, and we are all entitled to our opinions.
I was stating that when it comes to Concordia, which was mentioned, the writer should have mentioned who the speaker was and those to attend had to have invitations. Lectures should not be closed, but rather open.
Israel attracts a lot of positive and negative attention depending on the beholder. We all know that Israel receives the most foreign aid more than say any third world country, and just as they receive the most aid, they also receive the most attention from people in America and Canada. That piece of real estate is important to Christians, Jews, and Muslims. I mean we know many European Christians wanted the Jews to go to the Holy Land. It has always been in our lens of focus. The Crusades was as a result of that, a fiasco of a mission where Catholic warlords killed each other, Jews, Muslims, and Orthodox Christians.
I am not really interested in discussing Hillel versus SPHR
as it is just a drop in the bucket in terms of the politics in question. We could talk about it, but we would just go back and forth on it. It does deal though with the Arab-Jewish struggle taking place in North America. Both are competing for the favour of the North American public and both should get it. As far as that Falafel question, it doesn't say anything about Arab-Jewish relations at Concordia per se, because it is an old, tired issue that people have heard before elsewhere.
SPHR or Hillel have no control over the argument over Falafel being Arab or Israeli. Anyway, it is probably Egyptian Christian in origin, because one cannot eat meat during Lent and they probably used it for a meat substitute, so it is probably not native to the Arabs of the Levant. I frankly do not prefer the Egyptian style of making it, though it may be the original way.
In Alexandria, they call it Falafel, in the rest of Egypt they call it Ta'amiah since it is such a staple for the Egyptians. Frankly, I wish it was only a food fight between the Arabs and Israelis.
Don't we all?:) LOL

Happy New Year...
Bonne Annee

[Basilio]

I am posting sites from all perspectives on the issue.... Mr Ethics, you state being pro-Palestinian is a negative thing, and that it dismisses one's credibility to be pro-Palestinian, but being pro-Israeli does not in the same vein and that if one attended Concordia University all kinds of views must ascribed to them, it would be like saying you are like Baruch Goldstein, because, like you, he is from Brooklyn.
That would be more of an emotional attack on your person.
For the record, I support both Israelis and Palestinians and don't support the ban on Hillel, though I found their distribution of machal flyers encouraging Canadian Jews to join the Israeli army is something that many Jews object to as in bad taste and not sound.
The ban should not have been instituted, Hillel should have been given a warning that they were violating the Federal Law and told to stop having those flyers. Anyway, it is not simply about Jew versus Arab, because many of the protestors were also Jewish, and Aaron Mate was beaten badly when he was trying to help a hurt protestor. The Jewish Alliance Against Occupation and other groups were there.


http://209.157.64.200/focus/news/803015/posts

http://montreal.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=4917&group=webcast


On Netanyahu
http://tikkun.best.vwh.net/9803/9803morris.html

http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/rad-green/2002-September/004328.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/cummings0919.html

http://www.dalgazette.ca/09-26/letters.html

[ethics]

Basilio, give me a link where it states that the meeting was for Jews only, with no gentiles.

Until you provide a link that's not some Geocities site, I will take your credibility as having none.

Let me also add that I've always despised Bibi, hated his politics, and blame him for a lot of what you see today between the Arabs and the Jews.

However, I would put my life on his right to speak to anyone, anywhere, he wanted to.

I am sorry this leftist commie college doesn't see that they are in the same boat as the fascist they are labeling the Jews.

[Sir Joseph]

Just as an FYI, this article, Article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&u=/ap/20030102/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_us_china_2&printer=1) might explain why Israel might receive some assistance. I guess in this case Israel was bought by the US.

[Omar]

Originally posted by ethics
Basilio, give me a link where it states that the meeting was for Jews only, with no gentiles.


Basilio has been reading Arabic propaganda that even Arabs find humorous.

It never ceases to amaze me just how much the College kids in the US and Canada are so easily brainwashed. In case anyone wonders, I went through US education system. My word, being from Jordan and all, was true to all.

One day, I remember, I was with a few Arab collegues and one of them said, watch this. He then spewed something along the line that the Jews kill chickens on Sakkut and drink their blood. You would be surprised how many College kids, ages 17-22, smart, intelligent, many from well to do families, would not just believe it, repeat it, but actually wanted an interview with my friend for the school paper.

Unfortunately, a Jew blew our cover! :)

[jamming]

In part that is because many College Kids are brought up without any education on Religion in this country. Their ignorance is astounding at times.

[Omar]

Originally posted by jamming
In part that is because many College Kids are brought up without any education on Religion in this country.

You mean history and the understanding of all religions?

[jamming]

Yes, because of the whole religious backlash about being involved in the government, almost nothing is taught.

[Biker]

Shouldn't religious tolerance be taught in the home and not left to some unknown educator?

[ethics]

Originally posted by Biker
Shouldn't religious tolerance be taught in the home and not left to some unknown educator?

Oooh, read my mind.

With all of the trash the Universities teach, especially when it comes to politics, I'd hate to see the curriculum revolving around this issue.

Who will write books on it, who will be accepted, what words will be used?

Can you just see a huge cluster##@* of debates that the Palestinian students boycotting their class on Middle East because Israel is on the map or some other thing like it?

[jamming]

Originally posted by Biker
Shouldn't religious tolerance be taught in the home and not left to some unknown educator?

Not tolerance, but education on the information by elective classes. I always wanted to know more about Judaism and Islam when I was younger, it took going to Middle East for me to find out about it.

[Biker]

But why take a class? Seems to me if one was curious about something, they'd take it upon themselves to learn about it. Creating an elective "course" isn't going to do it. If the curiosity is there, they'll learn. If not, no course in the world is going to change things.

[Omar]

Originally posted by jamming
Yes, because of the whole religious backlash about being involved in the government, almost nothing is taught.

Read the Koran, Jim and you will probably know more about Islam than most Muslims. :)

I am not kidding.

[jamming]

Originally posted by Biker
But why take a class? Seems to me if one was curious about something, they'd take it upon themselves to learn about it. Creating an elective "course" isn't going to do it. If the curiosity is there, they'll learn. If not, no course in the world is going to change things.


Wow Biker, you just summed up the whole "Montessori Movement" in a couple of sentences, I guess I would respond it is hard to ask the questions without any exposure.

Omar - I have a Koran, a book of Morman, Several (OK a bunch) of Bibles, including an Aramaic Bible, Coptic Bible, Catholic Bible, and I have some Hindu and Sikh Commentaries in English. I have friends which are Wiccan and have gone to conferences with them. I am no expert on Religion, the more I know, the less I know, but to have an enforced ignorance of them is a bit much. It would be like going to School and not having the chance to learn history, not everyone believes the same history and there are different interpretations. We exist in a world of religous people and choose to ignore it.

[ethics]

Jim, I think there are a few Colleges that offer this via online.

[Sir Joseph]

Not a course, but I recently found a book in my house that goes through all the religions' ceremonies. It's meant for guests to be able to know what is going on. It's published by some printhouse in Vermont (where else :) ) I'll try to find the book for you.

[jamming]

Its OK everyone thanks, I have been to hundreds of different Church, Temple, Mosques, Ritual Circles and had classes on Comperative Religion both taught at Seminary and in University Religion Departments. I am Good now with knowing, though my Shinto Ceremonies need to be rounded some more, (need a travel toadie Steve?) Carry your bags, sir?

[Basilio]

The thing with the religions is you have those who will take their texts literally and those who will look at the time in which the texts came to be including their cultural context. Whether you take the New Testament, the TORAH, or QURAN there is a context, i.e. what happened first so you would hear what was said in John or so and so chapter of the QURAN, though it is true both books also refer to some incidents that happened before their religions appeared. Interpretation is often affected by political circumstances in my view..... Depending on your state to consciousness, those in power in the state etc....

[Omar]

Yep, well said, Basilio.