How Far Back Can You Remember?

[ethics]

I've been curious lately about memory. For example, why is it that my earliest memory is from about 4 years of age?

Most people I know remember much further back. How far back can a person remember? Is there a theoretical limit? What are the requirements for acquiring memories? I've read that oxygen is one; as in actual breathed-in stuff. This is supposed to explain why you can't remember anything from within the womb. That seems silly to me.

My own theory (with nothing to back it up) is that language is required but perhaps your long term memory needs to be in place as well? Although, I would venture that physically, by age 1, you have all of the tools, no?

[Domh]

Physiologically, it has been proven that the brain stores a permanent record of every sensory input it receives.

That being so, there is some point in the womb when that capability 'comes online' so to speak, and that would be ones earliest memory.

The key seems to be in ones ability to access and retreive that information.

The sense of smell, for some reason, stores data in a fashion that facilitates retreival of related sensory data. Smells bring memories back with a sudden fierceness sometimes - allowing us to experience a sort of deja-vu, but of a time and place we know that we had experienced previously in time.

The entire issue brings up the subject of the continuity and nature of time and relativity.

[Andy]

Well, I must be an oddball, because I have ONE very distinctive memory, that my mother tells me HAS to be pre-natal.

I have a very strong memory of an old woman and a house in Indiana, that I can describe right down to the clothes she wore, wallpaper, and light switch covers, yet to my knowledge, and as per my mother, I was NEVER at this house, yet I am correct in evey detail!

But I was there 3 months before I was born!!! :huh:

I also can remember being in my crib and just being able to sit up and stand up in it.

I sometimes scare my family with such rich details I remember about things from my childhood, that they have long since forgotten.

[EMIG]

Originally posted by ethics
I've been curious lately about memory. For example, why is it that my earliest memory is from about 4 years of age? My earliest memory is from when I was about 4 years old as well. I don't remember my exact age, but I figure I was around 4 from where I was at the time.
Originally posted by ethics
I've read that oxygen is one; as in actual breathed-in stuff. This is supposed to explain why you can't remember anything from within the womb. That seems silly to me. That is indeed silly. You can't live without Oxygen inside the womb or out. You get it from your mom's lungs via the umbilical cord before you are born.

[ShinyTop]

I remember taking a trip with my father when I was three. Not a great detail of memory, but definite memories.

[bruzzes]

I remember an out of body experience when I was 3 years old.

It was at a hospital where they were removing my tonsils.

I floated above my body and actually moved out of the room into the hall.

Whether it actually happened, or was the result of anesthesia I do not know. I have had two other out of body situations, once when with high fever and once during transcendental meditation.
I also remember being out on my back porch at three years old when I had measles. My mom was quite angry with me. My poor eyesight was probably the result.

[ditch]

I have heard of people who claim to remebmer some of the sensations from their birth. Don't know about that one.

I can remember lying on my back on a blanket in my grandparents backyard reaching to grab the clouds. I also recall my mothers face and her turning and saying something to someone else who was there. I was too young to roll over or to realise the distance of the clouds. This would make me well short of twelve months.

Not memory as such, but I remember being made to feel secure by me making girgling sounds. Ever
put your head on someone's stomach after they have had a large drink? The sounds their stomach makes is what I mean. I've thought that my secure feelings result from my imitating the sounds I heard while in my mother's womb????

My wife cannot recall the first eight years of her life. Her father walked out and left her and her mother when she was eight. After he made contact with her and visted us in Oz from England some of her memories returned. A good case of repression perhaps.

[cdw]

I believe my first memory is also from about 4 years old. The rest of my childhood memories are spotty. I was once told that I was repressing things, but, personally, I think I just didn't really pay attention all that much, lol. Just remembered thosed things that had some sort of meaning for me.
My sister on the other hand, remembers everything.... how the hell she does it, I don't know, but it's great when we get together and she starts reminiscing!

[Misu]

I remember waiting in the lobby of the hospital with my "Tia", holding a Raggedy Anne and Andy vase with flowers, while my mom was inside giving birth to my brother. I had just turned 3. There are other things I remember, but I can't place an age to those memories, and they aren't distinct like this one is.

The human mind is so cool, isn't it ethics? There is no limit as to what the mind can store, and what memories one can bring up - recall, however, does have its limits, each up to the individual person. Some people just have better recall than others. As to WHY, as per my cognitive psych course I took about 1 year ago, they still don't know. Tons of theories abound (haven't heard that oxygen one yet, though.... ) but nothing's been figured out for sure.

[ditch]

Originally posted by cydweeks
I believe my first memory is also from about 4 years old. The rest of my childhood memories are spotty. I was once told that I was repressing things, but, personally, I think I just didn't really pay attention all that much, lol. Just remembered thosed things that had some sort of meaning for me.
My sister on the other hand, remembers everything.... how the hell she does it, I don't know, but it's great when we get together and she starts reminiscing!

I think the interesting thing is that some memories, especially childhood, are there without ant intention to remember in the first place. The memories also, are lying dormant if you like, until one reaches a certain age or there is some trigger that brings them to the surface. There must be an unconscious storing of some memories independent from any deliberate attempt to store them which at my age is becoming a more amd more unreliable method.

[cdw]

without ant intention to remember in the first place

Ya know, now that you say that, I think that's true. I never thought of it that way. hmmmm...
There are some things though that my sister will recall that we did together (teenage years) that I can't recall at all. But, again, I don't think it has anything to do with repression, I just think it wasn't important to me, or I wasn't really paying attention to begin with. I dunno... I tend to do more than one thing at a time or do one thing, go to another, go back and finish the first, so maybe that has something to do with it too.
And, then again, like I said.... that rolodex in the mind isn't working anywhere near as quickly as it used to, lol.

[ditch]

Originally posted by cydweeks
Ya know, now that you say that, I think that's true. I never thought of it that way. hmmmm...
There are some things though that my sister will recall that we did together (teenage years) that I can't recall at all. But, again, I don't think it has anything to do with repression, I just think it wasn't important to me, or I wasn't really paying attention to begin with. I dunno... I tend to do more than one thing at a time or do one thing, go to another, go back and finish the first, so maybe that has something to do with it too.
And, then again, like I said.... that rolodex in the mind isn't working anywhere near as quickly as it used to, lol.

I feel sometimes as if my mind takes a snap shot of certain events and i know that I'll remember them. When I was younger this same snap was being taken but I just wasn't aware enough to know it was happening. Sense or not?

[cdw]

I just wasn't aware enough to know it was happening. Sense or not?

Perfect sense. :)

[Steve]

My memory works differently, I think, than others. The past is very "foggy" to me. Most of high school and back is just -gone-. I can recall specific "scenes", sometimes places, more rarely people. I have one memory from 1 1/2 years old, according to my parent's recollection of the event as I describe it.

I can also distinctly recall watching the first moon landing in 1969, when I was a little over 4.

My oldest daughter, on the other hand, remembers her baptism. She doesn't like having her hair washed and when we asked he why, she described in good detail her baptism. She was an infant, at the time!

[jamming]

I remember all the way back to the "Big Bang" as I like to put it, being faster than all the other little sailors. ;)

[Violet1966]

I can remember back when I was 2 years old. I have an excellent memory when it comes to events and stuff that I've actually done. I don't have a good memory though when it comes to learned things like how to figure out math problems and stuff like that though :(

It's funny but I was just talking to my husband about this the other day. I remember my 2nd Chrsitmas clearly. He doesn't remember anything. He even has a hard time remembering things only a year ago. But, he has an excellent memory when it comes to math and things like that, that he's learned. It's weird.

[Copzilla]

My earliest memories are from age 2. I recall the house we lived in, the back yard and shed we played in, even my room which overlooked the back yard and a street lamp that used to shine in my room.

I remember we had a poor black family that lived behind our house in kind of a shack and my mom used to take them food. This was right in the middle of the civil rights movement... Riots, and all that.

Once when I was a teen, my dad and I went to Baton Rouge where we lived when I was that age, and I described the house to him. He was surprised, then he took me to that house and showed me.

We moved to Houston when I was about 3, and I remember all of that too. I live close to the apartments we lived in then. They were state-of-the-art then, now they look ridiculous.

[drslash]

I was born in May of 61 and I remember when my younger brother came home from the hospital when he was born in Dec. of 63. That made me 19 months old. I suppose I remember since it was such a big event.

[wapu]

I have an early picture in my mind. Kind of a scene that I can describe. I distinctly remember sitting in the front seat of a blue car and watching my mom take the keys out of the ignition and give them to my dad through the window of the car. My mom got rid of that car when I was about 8 months old. The most vivid memory I have from childhood is going to the hospital and waiting while my sister was born. I was almost 3. I remember the drive to the hospital and can even describe the hospital perfectly. I remember what I was wearing and that I had a Mickey Mouse coloring book. Sounds generic, but when I wa about 15 and describing the scene to my Grandma, she remembered buying me the coloring book and it made her feel a little creepy.

I do have a good memory though. I sometimes freak my older family members out when I can remember things I, or they, did when I was a toddler. I can describe things in odd detail to them. For me, I just describe what I see in a picture in my head. I wonder though, if I am not describing a picture of the scene I may have seen when I was older? I am curious of how many of my memories are actually memories and how many are memories of pictures, if that makes any sense.

wapu

[ethics]

That's a fascinating post, Wapu. I wonder how many of us confuse the memory of something to the memory of a picture?

[Coriolis]

I also wonder how much of what we remember (of early childhood) is actually memory of the event, or memory of the event being retold to us as we grew up.

I can recall vividly stuffing a slice of balogne in my infant sister's mouth (she would have been about 3 months old, making me just over 1 and half years old) because I thought she looked hungry. Fortunately my mother walked into the room before my sister choked to death!

However, I have to seriously question whether or not I actually remember the event, or only remember it through retelling of the story (humorously I want to add) throughout my childhood "how Chris nearly killed his little sister".

I think my first memory, that I can confirm as a true memory (I think) was my 4th birthday. There are also speckles of memory, but I can't place them in terms of my age.

[ethics]

Originally posted by Coriolis
I also wonder how much of what we remember (of early childhood) is actually memory of the event, or memory of the event being retold to us as we grew up.


Very true. We all have vivid imaginations, ESPECIALLY as kids. How easy would it be to retell the truth and believe the story actually happened?

[joseftu]

I think (based on absolutely <b>no</b> scientific evidence ;) ) that nobody really remembers much before age 3. There's a range, of course, say from 2.5 to 3.5, but I think anyone who remembers earlier than this is really remembering a memory of a story, imagination, picture, or something similar.
But, please, don't get offended if you think I'm wrong...I certainly have no right to question or doubt those of you who remember infancy (or earlier!). And, as of now, there's really no way to tell.
I'm curious about Domhain's claim that there's physiological evidence of a permanent "record" of every sensory input in the brain. How much of that "record" is really accessible?
Certainly an interesting question.

[ethics]

joseftu, Are you saying it's physically impossible to go back that far? I am not disagreeing but I am sure there ARE rare cases of this? Perhaps faster wiring of the neurons?

[Violet1966]

I have to say that I know for a fact that I have memory from when I was age 2 and I know this was not remembering pictures. I clearly remember a night where my whole life was in an uproar. My father was hurt falling or something like that and my grandfather came over, as did a lot of family members that night, to check on my dad and see that he was ok. My father was in a lot of pain when they first brought him home and he was crying or screaming in pain. My grandfather took me outside and it was night time. I remember him saying to look at the stars. I remember clearly...so clearly, looking up and his standing beside me. I remember being scared and loving the fact the fact that he was telling me daddy is ok he just doesn't feel good. I know this was when I was just maybe a month older then 2 because of another event which I will describe next.

My next old memory was of an apartment. I remember my step grandmother living there. My mother was there and she was talking to my step grandmother for a long long time. I kept on asking for my grandfather. I was bored and just sat there and ate a bag of frito's (i think that's what they were...I can swear it was), right down to the end of the bag. And it was a big bag. At least to me it was huge!!! Then we left and I had to put my mittens on.

I found out later on in life why we were there that day and why they gave me the bag of fritos. My grandfather passed away of a heart attack in November of 1968. My mother went there to see if my step grandmother was ok and to just go and be with her. I was getting to my step grandmother because I was asking where my grandfather was. She started to cry in front of me. I started to cry and they gave me a bag of chips to eat to keep me quiet and distract from asking anymore.

These things were validated when I got older, not from my parents telling me any stories but from me asking them what was going on that night and that day.

I believe that traumatic experiences have a lot to do with the memory of a child that young. I'm living proof to myself.

[Domh]

Originally posted by joseftu
I'm curious about Domhain's claim that there's physiological evidence of a permanent "record" of every sensory input in the brain. How much of that "record" is really accessible?
Alot of work has been done demonstrating that the sensory data is stored. Less work has been done on the more pertinent and interesting subject of the acquisition of stored data.

Arguably, if all data is stored from the time the development of the storage process is finished, then data from that point forward is retreivable.

Experimenters have exposed the brains of conscious patients and stimulated different areas with varying amounts of electrical energy. The subjects respond by fully 're-experiencing' the original sensory input via the same sense!

Subjects are asked what they see, smell etc, and they describe things that happened, in some instances, within the last day or so to some descriptions of the subjects own birth.

Very strange and very cool stuff.

Joseftu, I think we agree that the most interesting research pertains to the acquisition of data, and not so much the storage, which is certainly impressive in its own right, but considering the comparatively vast processing power of the human brain besides some of our modern 'super-computers', its really not all THAT 'mind-blowing'.

;)

[joseftu]

Very strange, and very cool, you're right.
I guess I'd better totally reserve judgment.
I've heard it said that the earlier you remember, the more intelligent you are. Since my first memory is from about 1993, this might be true ;).
I'm thinking, too, of the R. Heinlein novel <i>Beyond this Horizon</i> in which (among many other sub-plots, it's rather rambling, not his best) it's conclusively proven that fetuses have detailed, complete memories of previous lives. They just forget in the trauma of birth. Now <b>that's</b> mind-blowing.

[ethics]

Originally posted by joseftu
it's conclusively proven that fetuses have detailed, complete memories of previous lives. They just forget in the trauma of birth. Now <b>that's</b> mind-blowing.

Yah, but the sci-fi has the assumption of reincarnation (thank goodness this thread is in this forum).

Not saying it's not right, who's to say what is, but that's pretty far out there.

To remember when you were a fetus? What purpose would that hold?

[John]

I think the older memories are more of a case of how much shock they caused you. This doesn't necessarily have to be negative, just a first-time-ever event or an event that overwhelmed you with emotion or wonder. In my case, my most vibrant but spotty memories are of when my father left our home when my parents divorced (I was 18 months old, this was an all day event, bags of clothes, some appliances, kiss goodbye), my older brothers first day of school when he was leaving the house for the first time and leaving me home in my crib crying because I wanted to leave with him (my brother is 4 years older than me, so on his first day of school I was around 1 year old). Other memories are ones where I had no way of explaining what was going on and was forced to make up my own weird explanations... I think we all seem to remember things like this.

Some old Freudian beliefs say that we don't remember anything before 4 years of age other than traumatic experiences. Not sure of the exact reason, maybe someone more well versed on Sigmund Freud can illustrate this.

[Coriolis]

Originally posted by Kennedy
Other memories are ones where I had no way of explaining what was going on and was forced to make up my own weird explanations... I think we all seem to remember things like this. I have one memory that I've puzzled over for most of my adult life. I'm sure it actually happened, but I've never been able to explain it. It happened when I was about 5.

At one time a large pole (I recollect it was about telephone pole diameter, perhaps a bit smaller) had stood in the backyard of the apartment house we were living in, which held one end of a clothes line. For some reason the pole had been removed, and was cut off flush with the ground. So all you saw was a round wooden disk. We used to use it as "home base" in tag games and such.

One day I was playing out in the backyard with a neighborhood friend. I can't remember what we were playing, but we had long, pointed sticks (what is it about kids and long, pointed sticks?). As we were running around, doing what ever we were doing, my friend called me over to the pole stump.

What I saw on the pole stump was one of the oddest things I've ever witnessed. Covering the <i>entire</i> area of the exposed stump was what looked like a lady bug. Seriously! It was red with black spots, with a split down the middle where the wing covers separate. It would have had to be about 10 inches in width to cover the stump end.

Well, we had sticks. Sharp pointy ones at that. So we prodded it a few times, but so far as I recall, it didn't move. Then my friend (at least I think it was he who did it, and not me) jabbed the thing as hard as he could between the wing covers. The wing covers separated and a white goo flowed out from the hole. We shrieked and ran into the house.

Some time later (I can't recall how much later, or if I told anyone what we'd seen) I came out, and the thing was gone. There was no clear evidence that something had even been there, at least within the scope of the my ability to discern such evidence at 5 years old.

When I first recalled the incident (I'd guess that I was probably in my teens) I thought for a while it might have been some sort fungus, as they can take on odd shapes and color patterns, but fungus doesn't get up and walk away. So, was it a dream? Perhaps. Was it a prank that some older kids were playing on us? Perhaps. I'll probably never know, but nonetheless, it is a memory of an event that I can't explain.

[Techie2000]

The earliest memory is at the age of 2. I was in a high chair. My parents got some chicken from Roy Roger's. I remember seeing them cut it up and giving me little pieces.

[ShinyTop]

Techie, techie, I have socks older than you! Some have even been washed. LOL