Dems First Televised Debate

[ethics]

Yep, it's tonight!!! What's on tap? Before we go in to that, Obama catching up (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117753516047082551-WIlf_6I0Y4NaxpA4PfHR1l38LPg_20080425.html?mod=tff_main_tff_t op) to Clinton. Clinton still leads the pack with 36 percent, but Obama is closing in with 31 percent.

Last month Obama was 12 percentage points behind Clinton.

[tke711]

Tim Russert last night said that some some polls are actually finding Obama ahead of Hillary.

Boy...she's got to hate that. :)

[ethics]

Obama would also have a lot more swing voters than Clinton.

[ethics]

Any impressions? Personally, I don't think Obama has it in him. Missing Israel as a US ally was a biggie for me as well.

[Sierra Mike]

Shoot, I missed it!!! Who came out on top?

SM

[ethics]

Hillary, of course. She was a pro.

[tke711]

I didn't see it either, but everything I've read said that Hillary won. Of course, most articles also went on to say that it was a pretty useless debate with nothing really new being shared with the American public.

[Sierra Mike]

Missing Israel as a US ally was a biggie for me as well.

I wonder if this is a product of his religion, personal convictions (in general terms, most Liberals see Israel as the biggest threat in the ME), or just plain newbie forgetfulness?

SM

[jfcjrus]

I didn't see it either, but everything I've read said that Hillary won. Of course, most articles also went on to say that it was a pretty useless debate with nothing really new being shared with the American public.
Yes, pretty useless, and not to mention that it was about a :friggin: year and a half before Americans will vote for their next President!

Does anyone really expect the VOTERS to start paying attention to this sort of blather so far away from the event?
Phfffttt! Only the politicians and producers of 24hr cable news would think any voters really give a shit this early.

Talk to me next year.

Regards.

[Copzilla]

Yeah, no shit Joe. The world changes completely in a year and a half, I want to know what their stances are on current issues at election time, not ancient history.

[Arc]

Of course, most articles also went on to say that it was a pretty useless debate with nothing really new being shared with the American public.

As opposed to the usual in depth and sophisticated political debates of the past several decades? :haha:

By the way everyone interested in politics in general but especially in political debates should be made to watch the Kennedy v Nixon debates. The level of their debate is so far above the ones we are used to that you can't even discuss the degree of difference. The term debate is meaningless when comparing the two levels.

Finally, what did the debate tell us. It told us who the next nominee is EXPECTED to be or at least who the other candidates think is the leader. It is the person they all ganged up on. Obama.

[Domh]

I wonder if this is a product of his religion, personal convictions (in general terms, most Liberals see Israel as the biggest threat in the ME), or just plain newbie forgetfulness?

Maybe he is trying to tell us something.

:whistle:

[ethics]

Moderator Brian Williams: You said recently, "No one is suffering more than the Palestinian people." Do you stand by that remark?
Obama: Well, keep in mind what the remark actually, if you had the whole thing, said. And what I said is nobody has suffered more than the Palestinian people from the failure of the Palestinian leadership to recognize , to renounce violence, and to get serious about negotiating peace and security for the region.

That's somewhat different from the way Obama was quoted (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703120330) March 12 by reporter Thomas Beaumont of the Des Moines Register. As reported, Obama attributed Palestinian suffering to "the stalled peace efforts with Israel" and not so narrowly to failures by Palestinian leadership only.
Des Moines Register, March 12: Obama told the Muscatine-area party activists that he supports relaxing restrictions on aid to the Palestinian people. He said they have suffered the most as a result of stalled peace efforts with Israel.

"Nobody is suffering more than the Palestinian people," Obama said while on the final leg of his weekend trip to eastern Iowa.
That statement would appear to lay some of the blame at the doorstep of Israel's leadership as well.

From Factcheck.org

[Andy]

Well, if anything, they're all off to a bang up start in getting out to the "green vote", considering they all mostly went to this shindig from DC to SC and not a one shared a plane or flew commercial.

8 separate private/charter jets all going from practically the same A-B using more fuel and carbon offsets than my car would in prolly 5 years. :whap:

GG Dems. ;)

[joseftu]

Mike Gravel (I had never heard of him before--somehow missed his entry into the campaign!) was the funniest--at first seemed like some angry elderly man who happened to wander into the auditorium and they gave him a podium.

Biden had the best line--when he was asked about being overly verbose, and prone to gaffes, and asked if he had the discipline to be the president, he just said, "Yes." And stopped. With a big smile. It was a good moment--I liked him for it.

Richardson also impressed me. I think he's probably really campaigning for secretary of state, or some other office, but he was smart and real--not a weasel.

Neither Clinton nor Obama was all that terrific.

It's also far too many people for that kind of debate. Just not a practical thing to present. It doesn't work.

[joseftu]

Well, if anything, they're all off to a bang up start in getting out to the "green vote", considering they all mostly went to this shindig from DC to SC and not a one shared a plane or flew commercial.
Guessing, or you know this to be true? (And what does "all mostly" mean? "all"? or "mostly"?;))

[Andy]

I just read the news.. (http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-campaign-planes,0,4666247,print.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines)

I'm supposed to believe the media, right?


WASHINGTON -- A flock of small jets took flight from Washington Thursday, each carrying a Democratic presidential candidate to South Carolina for the first debate of the political season.

For Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama, Chris Dodd and Joe Biden, it was wheels up shortly after they voted in favor of legislation requiring that U.S. troops begin returning home from Iraq in the fall.

No one jet pooled, no one took commercial flights to save money, fuel or emissions.

All but Biden, who flew on a private jet, chartered their flights -- a campaign expense of between $7,500 and $9,000.

I forgot to add the link earlier, got distracted.

[joseftu]

Thanks, Andy. I hadn't seen that. And shame on them!
No mention of Kucinich, Gravel, or Richardson. (If I had to guess, I would say Kucinich came on a ten-speed, Gravel in a beat-up old pickup truck, and Richardson on Amtrak. ;))

[Sierra Mike]

If Richardson was late, then yes, he probably did take Amtrak. :)

SM

[jimeez]

Sorry to dig this up so late, but man that Mike Gravel is a piece of work. I am thinking of changing my political affiliation so that I can vote in the Dem Primary.

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