What a name...

[cyrus]

Is a name like Barak Hussein Obama going to help winning an American presidential election in 2008?

[Sierra Mike]

Doubt it. Here in NYC they love him, but I'd imagine the salt-of-the-earth types in the midwest aren't exactly fond of him. But they'd probably vote for him before Clinton.

SM

[SixofNine]

What a great country this is that a guy with a name like that can get elected to the U.S. Senate and be considered a serious candidate for president.

[Steve]

No one in this country gives a shit what someone else's name is.

[cyrus]

No one in this country gives a shit what someone else's name is.

Aren't we being a little bit too idealistic here?



Apparently he also dresses like Ahmadinejad....

"...The senator was in New Hampshire over the weekend, sporting what's getting to be the classic Obama look. Call it business casual, a jacket, a collared shirt, but no tie.

It is a look the senator seems to favor. And why not? It is dressy enough to suggest seriousness of purpose, but without the stuffiness of a tie, much less a suit. There is a comfort level here that reflects one of Obama's strongest political assets, a sense that he is comfortable in his own skin, that he knows who he is.

If you want a striking contrast, check out Senator John Kerry as he campaigned back in 2004. He often appeared without a tie, but clad in a blazer, the kind of casual look you see at country clubs and lawn parties in the Hamptons and other toned (ph) locations.

When President Bush wanted in casual mode, he skipped the jacket entirely. Third-generation Skull and Bones at Yale? Don't be silly. Nobody here but us Texas ranchers.

You can think of Bush's apparel as a kind of homage to Ronald Reagan. He may have spent much of his life in Hollywood, but the brush-cutting ranch hand was the image his followers loved, just as the Kennedy sea ferry look provided a striking contrast with, say, Richard Nixon, who apparently couldn't even set out on a beach walk without that "I wish I had spent more time at the office" look.

But, in the case of Obama, he may be walking around with a sartorial time bomb. Ask yourself, is there any other major public figure who dresses the way he does? Why, yes. It is Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who, unlike most of his predecessors, seems to have skipped through enough copies of "GQ" to find the jacket-and-no-tie look agreeable.

And maybe that's not the comparison a possible presidential contender really wants to evoke."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/11/sitroom.02.html



LOL poor guy, I can see his chances dwindling.

Though I'd really like him to win, what better message could America send to the world than electing a black anti-Iraq-war president to office now.

[ethics]

The better message would be what he can do for Americans, not how it looks to those outside of it. Thus far, I like his platform. Not what his name is or how he dresses; that's for the shallow people.

[Sierra Mike]

Apparently he also dresses like Ahmadinejad....

Yeah, but unlike Ahmagonnagocrazy, Obama showers.

SM

[Steve]

Aren't we being a little bit too idealistic here?Your near-complete lack of comprehension of all things American is astounding. I've suddenly realized I have better things to do than to engage in one-sided debates with people who don't even understand the topic at hand.

Good day.

:shake:

[cyrus]

Your near-complete lack of comprehension of all things American is astounding. I've suddenly realized I have better things to do than to engage in one-sided debates with people who don't even understand the topic at hand.

Good day.

:shake:

Byebye!

[cyrus]

The better message would be what he can do for Americans, not how it looks to those outside of it. Thus far, I like his platform. Not what his name is or how he dresses; that's for the shallow people.

I'm just familiarizing myself in-depth with his agenda, seems very reasonable to me.

But just for the record, there quite a few shallow people among the eligible voters no? So these things should play a role too...

At least for some people...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200612200005

[ethics]

But just for the record, there quite a few shallow people among the eligible voters no? So these things should play a role too...

At least for some people...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200612200005


Of course. We are not "some" people here though so your inquiry is a bit misplaced. People here abhor that type of shallowness.

[cyrus]

No, I don't think my inquiry was misplaced actually as I didn't ask if people who frequent this forum here would refrain from voting for him because of his name but if his name could potentially negatively influence his prospects in the general elections, which given the considerable proportion of shallow people among all voters is not an unrealistic assumption at all.

[ravital]

Is a name like Barak Hussein Obama going to help winning an American presidential election in 2008?

Yes, we are all a bunch of racists and will never elect anyone with that name.

Happy now?

Here's your pacifier, go suck on it. :)

[ethics]

Please keep the disagreements civil. Thank you.

[cyrus]

Yes, we are all a bunch of racists and will never elect anyone with that name.

Happy now?

Here's your pacifier, go suck on it. :)

I don't think you personally or anyone else on this forum is a racist, at least I don't have any reason to think so.

But as I said I think there might be quite a few American voters who are susceptible to defamatory campaigns based on his name and heritage (father was Muslim) and that might very well prove to be a vital point as these elections are often decided by very small margins.

So how about you just treat the question as what it is, namely a reasonable and legitimate inquiry instead of trying to find hidden agendas and bias where there is none.

[Copzilla]

I think you will find just as many shallow people who will vote for him BECAUSE he is from the background he is. I think there are people who would vote for a candidate or hope for him to be elected if he promised to destroy the entire country. In other words, I think shallow people are on both sides of the aisle, Cyrus.

[Violet1966]

And one of the best things about this country is that anyone can walk into a voting booth and vote for whomever they like! There's no bully's at the door threatening them if they enter to vote. Women are allowed to vote too! The ballot contains more then one person and you can even write in your own if you like! :)

[ravital]

So how about you just treat the question as what it is, namely a reasonable and legitimate inquiry instead of trying to find hidden agendas and bias where there is none.

My experience with your posts over the last 2 years or so has taught me better. But you know what? Let's be fair and take your question at face value:

You keep insisting that "a considerable portion of eligible voters" in the U.S. are "shallow." What is shallowness, according to you?

In 1960, Kennedy defeated Nixon by an extremely thin margin. It was the first time the presidential debate was televised. In repeated polls and studies after the election, it was found that the majority of those who watched the debate on television, believed Kennedy had "won the debate" - came off as more credible, more reliable. The majority of those who had only listened to the debate on radio, believed Nixon carried the debate, sounded more substantive and serious. Again, what is shallowness?

You're correct, many have voted for Kerry because he has a nice helmet of hair. And misguided as I believe they were, many serious and intelligent people voted for the same Kerry for much better reasons than that. We don't have intelligence tests for voters. You just have to be a citizen, 18 or older, period.

Now, your point, that razor-thin margins could be swayed by one small group or another of "shallow" people may be valid, I don't see why it's relevant. Anywhere on this planet, wherever people vote on anything at all, from global geopolitical issues of paramount importance to the naming of a municipal waste-recycling facility, there will always be "shallow" people voting. So Bloody What?

In addition to that, the very fact that the question is asked with regards to a candidate named Barak Hussein Obama, the fact that you and no one else, in the opening post, chose to emphasize "Hussein Obama" and ask a question on how the name affects the candidate's chances of success in an election in the U.S., excuse me, I'm not reading anything into anything, that juxtaposition speaks for itself loud and clear, and if you truly did not mean for the racial factor to be considered in the question, your training in the Law could have suggested to you that you make such a disclaimer clear enough. That's what any of us would do.

Therefore, that, along with the long, long list of suspicious arguments you've been making in this forum since you've joined, leads me to believe your question was not without an agenda. Would it interest you to know that an American named Mario Cuomo had tried to run for president years ago and failed? Would the question of his ethnic background as evidenced by his name be appropriate then? Would the same question on the same ethnicity be appropriate for a candidate named Rudy Giuliani, who is also running, for the same office as Obama? I suppose not, because if it's not a black person, and with a strongly ethnic name to boot, no one can point at "shallowness" - let's quit mincing words, shall we? bigotry plain and simple - can one? That would be too boring.

Can you appreciate what it takes to run for the U.S. senate? Even if you reduced it to nothing but money and connections, isn't that still an accomplishment? Can you appreciate that a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and former Secretary of State was a black man? That the current Secretary of State is a black woman? That a former (or maybe still current) chief neuro-surgeon at the neuro-surgery department of John's Hopkins University Hospital (one of the most prestigious in the world) is black?

So really, when I add this question of yours, to the long list of irrational arguments you've made - and counting only today! - That 9/11 was a controlled demolition, that Iran has something to fear from Israel (BTW, I AM a former Israeli and I dare say you don't know half of what I know about injustices perpetrated by Israel, which I've openly denounced), that we listen to FOX propaganda sugar-coated by our think-tanks (and then you try to tell us you don't believe we're shallow, right?), sorry, the only logical move is to pacify you. Yes, America is racist and that is the only reason why Obama won't get elected. Yes, BushHitler engineered 9/11 and killed 3,000 Americans just to get Iraqi oil for Halliburton - never mind that the first big oil contracts in Iraq have gone to companies from China, Vietnam, etc. - and while we're at it, he also engineered Katrina, and the Tsunami of 2004. Anything to make you happy.

[cyrus]

Ravital,

Seems like I hit a nerve there earlier today, as you are really going on an intellectual rampage here and while you're at it losing your sense of proportionality and your objectivity.

Let me just quickly invalidate some of those points you make here. Firstly, be so kind and ask ethics for his definition of "shallow people" as it was not me but him who first used that term here to describe people who might be negatively influenced by the fact that this senator from Illinois happens to have a rather unlucky name for an American presidential candidate. I just picked up his term to use the same terminology and avoid misunderstandings.

Secondly, in my opinion the negative effect of the name, or the defamatory use political opponents could make of it does not relate to any racial affiliation but to the resemblance the name bears to two rather unpopular figures of recent history, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, and furthermore to the perception that the senator might have some loyalties toward Islam, given his vaguely Muslim background and his Islamic middle name. None of these points applies to the current or the previous Secretary of State or any other colored or ethnic high ranking officials that you named. Hence this argument is invalid too.

And lastly, the point about swallowing FOX news and sugarcoated realities was made in reference to one specific forumer and that was not you. I can see that you might be so enthusiastic about the "you're either with us or against us" rhetorics that you're inclined to see me as "them" and yourself and all other forumers as "us", but nonetheless I would like to kindly ask you to differentiate and refrain from generalizations because I clearly do and when I say something to one person you can assume that I mean that person and not everyone on the forum.

[Violet1966]

Well then you have to not assume things yourself now cyrus. This woman wouldn't be caught dead watching Fox news. I'm also not a big George Bush fan if that matters any. I also don't take any news for fact.

I stated that innocent people died in the WTC attacks. I also didn't assume who was behind these cowardly acts until the facts started coming in. Did I learn how to speak Arabic and then meet with OBL and get the facts? No I took what I could deduct as fact through reports. Most of the ones I found to be most convincing, were ones put out there proudly by AQ. It took me years to really and truly believe who was behind this. AQ is proud of what they did. Do you doubt AQ was capable of pulling this one off? It seems you are, the way you seem to think that this was some inner US conspiracy. Self inflicted. If our government wanted to go all out in the ME they really only need to prove it to themself. They don't need the public outcry for permission. There's no vote that every voter gets to cast before a war is began. We rely on our elected officials and they have the power, and the discipline, we trust. They can feasably fabricate something that wouldn't harm 1000's of innocents in our own country. There is no reason to think that American citizens are mere sheep, being led blindly. Sure there's some who will be lead, then there are most who are very experienced in thinking for themself. It's something that comes with a lot of experience ;)

And so what there's someone running for President who's name is ME sounding? It's really not going to mean much. He's an American. American born. He's a very admirable man and of most of the democrats who've climbed up the ladder, he seems to be one that even a Republican could like. We're not as closed minded as you think we are. I'm sure every single member here knows someone who's origins are from the ME and doesn't think poorly of them. I think people can differentiate between good people, and bad people. Only the truly ignorant who hate just for the sake of hating, and are not the norm, would be so ignorant to not vote for someone due to their name. It's not the mainstream and maybe someone might think who doesn't know our country, for American's to hear a ME name and think negatively. Sure we have some nutjobs but they are not the norm.

[ravital]

Seems like I hit a nerve there earlier today, as you are really going on an intellectual rampage here and while you're at it losing your sense of proportionality and your objectivity.


Goose, gander, and you know the rest.

[Biker]

After seeing him in action in Illinois politics, it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for that man. Has nothing to do with his color, name, etc. But his agenda is NOT plain, and I don't trust that man. He's no different than any other slime ball, greasy politician who just wants to be elected for the gravy train.

[Copzilla]

Seems like I hit a nerve there earlier today, as you are really going on an intellectual rampage here and while you're at it losing your sense of proportionality and your objectivity.

Coming from a guy who espouses CT theories on 9-11, that can only be a compliment to Ravital.

[MNeedham73]

After seeing him in action in Illinois politics, it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for that man. Has nothing to do with his color, name, etc. But his agenda is NOT plain, and I don't trust that man. He's no different than any other slime ball, greasy politician who just wants to be elected for the gravy train.

Amen to that. The chances of me winning the lottery are better than me voting for Obama.

[drntdrtydg]

Is a name like Barak Hussein Obama going to help winning an American presidential election in 2008?

Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Honolulu , Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black
Muslim from Nyangoma-Kogel , Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white atheist from
Wichita ,Kansas .Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father Returned to Kenya .His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a radical Muslim
From Indonesia.When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to
Indonesia.Obama attended a Muslim school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.
He Is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also
attended Catholic school."Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this
influence was temporary at best.In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya Soon after
the divorce,and never again had any direct influence over His son's
education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, AnnDunham, introduced his stepson to Islam.Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism
is the radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists
Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian or Jew when
seeking Major public office in the United State s, Barack Hussein Obama has
joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
background.- anonymous email circulating the net

FYI. I didn't know all this about him.

[drntdrtydg]

Is a name like Barak Hussein Obama going to help winning an American presidential election in 2008?


Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Honolulu , Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black
Muslim from Nyangoma-Kogel , Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white atheist from
Wichita ,Kansas .Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father Returned to Kenya .His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a radical Muslim
From Indonesia.When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to
Indonesia.Obama attended a Muslim school in Jakarta. He also spent two years in a Catholic school. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.
He Is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also
attended Catholic school."Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this
influence was temporary at best.In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya Soon after
the divorce,and never again had any direct influence over His son's
education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, AnnDunham, introduced his stepson to Islam.Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism
is the radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists
Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian or Jew when
seeking Major public office in the United State s, Barack Hussein Obama has
joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim
background.- anonymous email circulating the net

FYI. I didn't know all this about him.