New Rider, New Bike

[Kluge]

Which still does not take into account the number of riders. Florida could have triple the amount of new riders over the US average.
Or senile new riders:)
I've been thinking about getting a license & cycle to economize my 1 hour commute. I've got a few questions, hopefully not too much thread drift...
Is riding with a helmet quieter or noisier than riding without one?
How do they affect visibility?
Since they're mandatory in NY, what's the best kind?
Can you see through the little windshield in rain or fog? (I'm an eyeglass wearer and I know from boating it's a problem with just glasses).
Are the expensive ones much safer than cheap ones?
Is there any 'deadly' helmet? (I recall that some land helmets can actually kill a person during a high speed boating accident).
Where do you keep it when you're at the opera (or whatever)?
Would a full-face model work well with a blackberry and an ear bud?

One more thing...at a motorcycle show I saw some 'smart buy' offers that were ludicrous, like $17 a month for a $17K bike. Do some of these buyers get suicidal when that balloon payment hits?

[Biker]

Split this off from the other thread as it's going to get very off topic.

A full face helmet is going to be the safest. It will be quieter, but you'll also find that using your cell phone while riding is virtually impossible. I'm waiting for a earbud/mic combination that uses bone induction for the microphone. That should allow you to wear it under a helmet (or without) and not get the associated wind noise in the mic.

Visibility during inclement weather is always an issue. If it's raining that hard, best to find a decent watering hole and get out of it for a bit.

What type of motorcycle were you looking at? I keep my helmet in the tour pack when it's not in use.

[MNeedham73]

I can answer a few of those, James:

Visibility isn't affected much. Full-face, in my experience, tends to restrict it more than other types though.

Yes, you can see through the visor when it's wet.

A lot of the more expensive bikes (like my dad's Goldwing) have ABS as an option, so yeah, I'd say they can be a bit safer.

If you get a bike with bags, you can store a helmet in those. If not, bikes have places where you can lock your helmet to the bike.

Can't help you on the full-face/cellphone question.

[Biker]

Forgot the most important thing. Before deciding on that shiney new bike, get your butt down to the nearest motorcycle rider's course and sign up for the classes. It'll make you a much better rider and even give you a nice little discount on your insurance.

[Kluge]

Split this off from the other thread as it's going to get very off topic.
...What type of motorcycle were you looking at? I keep my helmet in the tour pack when it's not in use.
At a motorcycle show the logical choice seemed to be a Triumph 750. Dorkiest model at the show, the salesman wasn't even there, but brand new for half the price of the others. Also, simple looking. For now at least, I don't want to take off parts just to get to other parts.
I'd have to rent space at a u-store to keep it, so the finances are complicated, although gas savings would easily be $5 per commute. I don't see many regulars on the road though.

[Biker]

Gas savings is one consideration, the other is the absolute joy you'll get when you're out on the road. There will be a lock on the bike that you can attach the D Ring to for your helmet. It's been my experience that you shouldn't have a problem keeping your helmet like that for short periods of time while you're in shopping or watching a movie.

Be prepared to shell out some serious bucks for a good helmet that's comfortable and fits properly. I tend to stay with the half shells, and those even run around 150 for a good one that's comfortable. Full face, expect to pay over 200.

[Kluge]

Can the thread move to Sports & Outdoors? I see there's some others there.

What happens when you hit a stinging insect? I see guys riding in t-shirts and open-face helmets and I happen to be bug conscious. In fact, once I was driving my car near here and went through a 2 mile swarm of what I now think might have been digger bees. I was glad the windows were closed tight that day.

The pre-plan is to take a riding course that goes right through to the road test. Since I haven't ridden a motorbike since 1972 or so, and it was a 65cc model briefly ridden, I expect I'll have new opinions after a few drills. I think the course costs $400 but it may be too late for this year.

[MNeedham73]

Don't be so sure. Here in Illinois at least, they have basic riding courses all the way into October.

[Kluge]

Don't be so sure. Here in Illinois at least, they have basic riding courses all the way into October.
I think the one I talked to was a summer job thing run by some teachers.
I am in no hurry as yet, I'm still getting settled in the 'zombie' shift. That means I'll (sometimes) be coming home from work when the black ice forms, as I've seen when light rain hits below-freezing pavement.
It's also past my bedtime now so I'll see you all later...zzzzzzz

[Biker]

What happens when you hit a stinging insect? I see guys riding in t-shirts and open-face helmets and I happen to be bug conscious. In fact, once I was driving my car near here and went through a 2 mile swarm of what I now think might have been digger bees. I was glad the windows were closed tight that day.

You yell, say some bad words, pull over and pull the stingers out. Bees aren't that bad. June bugs, on the other hand, hurt like hell when you get tagged in the chest doing 70. And if you're unlucky enough to get tagged in the forehead with one, hopefully you have the presence of mind to hang on to the handlebars when you're rocked back in your seat!

[MNeedham73]

roflmao Biker, I've heard about Junebug hits from my dad and some of his friends. Doesn't sound like much fun at all.

[cmhbob]

June bugs may hurt, but I can tell you from experience that sleet just downright SUCKS!

[Biker]

Sleet ain't nothin'. Try marble sized hail, no helmet, and not a bloody bridge in site.

[Biker]

The pre-plan is to take a riding course that goes right through to the road test. Since I haven't ridden a motorbike since 1972 or so, and it was a 65cc model briefly ridden, I expect I'll have new opinions after a few drills. I think the course costs $400 but it may be too late for this year.

James, here is the info you need for MSF courses in your area.

http://www.manys.org/rider/trama.htm

Kinda ticks me off when you have fees taken from your registration to fund the program and you still get raped for 350 bucks to take the course.

[MNeedham73]

Ouch, that does suck. The Illinois Sec. of State provides basic riding courses here. They're $20 I think and it takes up a weekend.

[Biker]

Just one weekend? The Basic course is 22 hours long. Makes for a long weekend!

(You can also get the courses for free through NIU (http://www.outreach.niu.edu/mcycle/default.shtml).)

[MNeedham73]

Duh, the NIU one is what I meant. For some reason I thought it was through the state :doh:

And yeah, it's a long weekend. 6-10pm fri and 8am-6pm both Sat. and Sun.

[Kluge]

I checked out that link and asked them for a schedule. They aren't the ones I had spoken to but I think I've seen their 'school' at Farmingdale (which is my alma mater). When I saw a bunch of motorbikes lined up there I thought it would be a college course and I thought the students there were getting spoiled, but as a semi-private thing it makes a lot more sense.
The site closest to me is at BNL, where they're just shipping out the last of a bunch of contaminated material. Should make those riding lessons a lot safer ;)

[Kluge]

7 days and no response from the riding school. Maybe they're on vacation, maybe it's in the mail today, but I suspect they can only have a couple of classes each year. No hurries, no worries.

[Kluge]

I took the 2-1/2 day Basic Rider Course. No paperwork yet, but they said everybody passed:happy:
Some things I didn't expect:
Sore butt
Cramped fingers
Bike likes to go too fast
No street riding
Gorgeous lady biker doing half the teaching
Gorgeous lady biker has friendly, wisecracking, flirtatious attitude
Sweaty, sweaty, sweaty in the hot sun
My big head needs extra-large helmet

Some things that gave me trouble:
Finally figured out that lines painted on asphalt match lines on instructor's diagrams:doh:
Hard to do figure-8 inside the lines of moderately-sized box.

Somethings I still don't know:
What it's like to ride faster than 30 mph
What it's like to ride for more than 3 minutes at a time
Whether any reasonable-size bike fits in a minivan (medium-large bikes don't)
Relative value of 'new' vs 'inexpensive' bike.
Can a bike be quiet?

Basic physics/math I think I need to remember:
There is a balanced lean angle at any speed for any radius (no need to lean over & go fast).
Humans can develop substantial lift at speeds above 60 mph (not sure what to expect).

Surprising facts emerging:
Big bikes get less than 50 mpg? I had a 905cc sports car that could get 50 mpg highway:blush:

[Biker]

My Harley gets around 30-33 mpg. The newer ones (fuel injected) get over 40.

[MNeedham73]

My dad's Goldwing gets 40-45mpg. He's got new exhaust on order which should push that a little higher.

[Kluge]

My dad's Goldwing gets 40-45mpg. He's got new exhaust on order which should push that a little higher.
I guess that's reasonable. My 50 mpg experience was in a Fiat 850 Spyder, 905cc, rear engine 2 seater, filled it up in Newburg NY and again 150 miles later, using 3 gallons.
Do you have any experience with smaller bikes, like a 400cc or a 250cc ?
Some key points would be acceleration & hill climbing. Using the Fiat as a data point says 1600 lbs + me = 1800 lbs/905cc, or .9 kg/cc. If I used a 250cc like the school bikes, it might be 300 lbs + me = 515 lbs, or .936 kg/cc.
If there's one thing I hear consistently, it's big bike, big bike, big bike. I'm beginning to grasp the concept of wind making the front of the bike light, but shouldn't sports car performance be enough? I'm hoping that physically I'd be comfortable enough on the smaller bike.

[MNeedham73]

I don't, no. Smallest bike I've ridden was a 500cc dirt bike. Really don't keep track of mileage when you're tearing through the So. California desert ;)

The times I've gone looking at bikes, the smallest bike that I felt comfortable on (and was large enough to accomodate my height) was a 750 Honda Shadow Aero (http://powersports.honda.com/motorcycles/cruiser_standard/model.asp?ModelName=Shadow%20Aero&ModelYear=2006&ModelId=VT750C6&bhcp=1).

Another bike I like is the Yamaha V Star Silverado (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/star/products/modelhome/63/0/home.aspx)
(650 w/saddlebags and windshield)

A Harley will never be in my pricerange. Plus, the only ones I feel comfortable on are Ultra Classics heh.

[Biker]

Whoever is telling you big bike needs to STFU. Until you get at least a year's worth of experience under your belt, stay at 500cc or below.

[Kluge]

Whoever is telling you big bike needs to STFU
There's no guilty party, it just seems to be the general consensus. And last time I caught 2-wheel fever (in the 80's) folks where I worked said 50 miles on a little bike would be tedious. (There was a Gold Wing faction there).

[ethics]

Whoever is telling you big bike needs to STFU. Until you get at least a year's worth of experience under your belt, stay at 500cc or below.

Yah, most guys I know who bike said the same thing, almost violently. ;)

[Biker]

There's no guilty party, it just seems to be the general consensus. And last time I caught 2-wheel fever (in the 80's) folks where I worked said 50 miles on a little bike would be tedious. (There was a Gold Wing faction there).

Uh huh.. And their experience is? Start small. Get your experience. THEN graduate to a large bike. Most fatalities occur in the first year of riding, and usually it's the rider's fault. (Lack of skills, too much bike, etc.)

[Kluge]

FYI, I bought a 2002 Suzuki GZ250 with 500 miles on the odometer.
(Now you can say you didn't mean _that_ small...

So here's the calcs (rough):
Minivan, 3400cc, 4000 lbs, .85 cc/lb.
Bike+rider, 250cc, 500 lbs, .5 cc/lb.

Fiat 850 spyder, 900cc (say 1000), 50 hp, .05 hp/cc
Bike, 250cc, at .05cc/hp: 12.5 hp

Westbound I-495 LI Expressway, hill at rte 110, minivan: WTF is the traffic doing slowing down here?
Westbound I-495 LI Expressway, hill at rte 110, Bike: To be determined.

More data will be available when the bike gets registered.
:beanie:

[Biker]

250 is just fine. You'll have a serious case of buzz butt every now and then, but it's a good size to get experience on.

[Kluge]

I forgot to mention a neat thing: Since a horsepower is 550 ft-lbs/sec, and the bike + rider is close to 550 lbs, it should climb hills at about 1 ft/sec vertical per horsepower. By checking different hills, I might be able to get the wind resistance measured.

[misterduck]

I am also considering getting a bike. Sage advice to start small. I hadn't even considered that. I won't be starting tomorrow or anything, frankly, the safety factor has me concerned. I would only be a weekend/to and from work rider in the summer type of driver anyway. Any recommendations on smaller type bikes?

[Coot]

I forgot to mention a neat thing: Since a horsepower is 550 ft-lbs/sec, and the bike + rider is close to 550 lbs, it should climb hills at about 1 ft/sec vertical per horsepower. By checking different hills, I might be able to get the wind resistance measured.

Well, you'll have to account for gearing and transfer efficiency from engine to road.

[Kluge]

Any recommendations on smaller type bikes?
The riding school used a verirty of 250cc bikes, I only rode one (labeled 'Bonnie' by a previous student) and I bought one just like it, which I havent sat on yet. So I'm a neophyte if I'm not abusing that big word.
I got a quote for $3300 for a Suzuku 250 new, plus $100 something for something else. Another dealer quoted $2880 for a Honda 250 plus stuff that added up to $3300, and said he could get one any time in about 2 days.

Well, you'll have to account for gearing and transfer efficiency from engine to road.
The basic figures will be revealing enough, I think. There's got to be a bit less friction than an 18 wheeler with 13 forward gears:cool:
There's a catch: 500 miles on the bike is the 1/2 throttle break-in period. They suggest 3/4 throttle max during the next 500 miles. Since the seller already bought a bigger bike, I'm sure she carefully followed the owner's manual:doh:

[Biker]

I am also considering getting a bike. Sage advice to start small. I hadn't even considered that. I won't be starting tomorrow or anything, frankly, the safety factor has me concerned. I would only be a weekend/to and from work rider in the summer type of driver anyway. Any recommendations on smaller type bikes?

Take the MRC first. Then start looking at bikes.

[Kluge]

Take the MRC first. Then start looking at bikes.
I would say it's ok to 'look' at bikes any time but definitely take the riding course before you buy. The one I took was called the Basic Rider Course or BRC in initials. It was 2 days of riding (in a parking lot) without buying a motorcycle or helmet. There are a lot of things that are well known but they might take you years to discover by yourself.
One thing I discovered myself: Although a GZ250 will fit in a minivan with 1/2 the seats out & the bike's mirrors removed, it will sustain some damage going in & out.

[Kluge]

I rode the bike about 100 miles, to work & back. With less than 250 cc, it still reaches 60 mph easily without using full throttle (it's not broken-in until it gets over 1000 miles). The big grin made an appearance but it's a lot of work to remember everything about riding without crashing. And it is way way colder than walking, with little movement to keep warm.

The worst part was on the morning ride home, when face-shield fogging became a major pain. I got a helmet with a flip-up full-face shield so I don't need to take off my eyeglasses to helmet or de-helmet. At red lights, stop signs and low speeds my breath fogged the face shield so badly I took to flipping it up when I stopped. The vision-impairing fogging implies an explanation for some of the 1-bike accidents that have happened around here. I can speculate that the riders weren't drunk or speeding, but could have been trying to ride fast enough to defog a face shield as they lost sight of the road and went into the trees.

The cold was unexpected. I'm comfortable walking or standing at temps well below 37F, but at 45 mph it was bitter cold to my knees & fingers. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that without going the full biker-gear route. I'd like to look halfway normal if I stop for a burger somewhere. I'm thinking of wearing insulated elephant pants over my regular pants, hoping that won't be too odd.

[Biker]

A few things to consider...

Snowmobile suit, winter gauntlets, and electric heating pads for your hands and torso.

Do the full gear. Better to spend the money, than to suffer from the cold and make a fatal mistake because you were thinking about staying warm instead of paying attention to the road.

[Kluge]

Snowmobile suit, winter gauntlets, and electric heating pads for your hands and torso...Do the full gear...
How about the face shield? I recall a system Ford/Lincoln put on some Mark-somethings that had a see-thru gold coating on the windshield and a separate 3-phase 120V generator that was supposed to defrost the windshiels instantly. If I figure the windshield was 60 inches and the face shield is 6 inches, a 12V tap or battery could put the same system on a face shield. (Resistance being proportional to length, of course). Although the generator was comparatively as big as my engine, the Lincoln's windshield was a lot wider than a face shield, so the amps would be less, too.

[Biker]

Good lord, you DO believe in doing things the hard way, don't you? :lol:

A couple of ways to help cut down on the fogging (you'll never prevent it totally).

Crack the shield at low speeds to get that bit of air flow going around the plastic. RainX also makes a product that helps keep moisture from sheeting on the shield.

[Kluge]

Good lord, you DO believe in doing things the hard way, don't you? :lol:
...Crack the shield at low speeds to get that bit of air flow going around the plastic...
Opening the face shield alone by a quarter inch worked pretty good, but it shuts itself when I speed up, and opening it when stopping takes a third hand that I wasn't born with.

So I'm thinking of using parts of a laptop retractable mouse cord plus some knick-knacks from the auto parts store to make a heated face shield. Hopefully I'll not ruin anything expensive or clog my workbench with another unfinished project ;-)

[MNeedham73]

Try Rain-X Anti-Fog before you start going all MacGyver and stuff ;)

[Kluge]

Try Rain-X Anti-Fog before you start going all MacGyver and stuff ;)

OK, have $14 worth of Rain-X & Brand-X products. including Original Exterior Glass, Interior Glass, pouch size of each for emergency use, and 'No Fog Mitt' for use on inside of windshield. The Rain-X products say 'Not for use on plastics unless pre-approved by the manufacturer of the plastic'.

Face Shield & eyeglasses are plastic.
Advice, experience?

P.S. Went up the hill near Rte 110, the only one on the island with a Slow Truck lane, & only had to slow for traffic. So at that hill and 50 mph, power was not a problem.

[Biker]

If you picked the Rain-X stuff up at the motorcycle shop, you should be good to go.

[Kluge]

If you picked the Rain-X stuff up at the motorcycle shop, you should be good to go.
I got them from a regular auto parts store (a chain store).
I'll look for the helmet's docs or try a little near the hinges.

[Kluge]

I checked the mileage and calculated 65 mpg for combined highway & suburban traffic. I also may have reached the power limit, against an apparent headwind and on an uphill grade I had a loss of rpm's. I thought it was running out of gas so I switched to reserve but it only took 1/2 a tank when filled. I had crept up to full throttle without realizing it but the hill out here is very mild and I'm not sure it wasn't some other cause.

I was bold & put the rain-X on the face shield. It seems to be ok, but it worked better on the side where the cloth was wetter putting it on. (I think). There was still some fogging but it cleared up quickly. At times it stayed clear or mostly clear as I could see my breath in the air inside the shield. Since it became EST again I was in daylight and it's not a true comparison.

BTW, if you want to ride in a little bit of dirt, wait for the weekend and then take the road where they're putting in pipeline. Mine is not a dirt bike, but it was ok on the flat dirt & rocks as long as I went 25 mph or less. A little squirrely handling, though.

[jfcjrus]

James,

I really have nothing to offer that hasn't already been said, as it's been decades since I've had a bike, but I've got to tell you that I'm enjoying your thread, from your perspective of one new to the experience.

I'm not going to try to keep up with your scientific equations on thrust vectors and such, but I'm enjoying your thoughts of one experiencing a bike, in a typical everyday life, for the first time.
Keep the daily journal coming!

The only suggestion I might offer you, so far, is to try to calm down a bit.
Stop breathing so hard from the fun you're having!
Then, I think you'll have less problem with the face shield fogging up. ;)

Regards,

[Biker]

Either that, or quit riding by the ladies. :haha:

[Kluge]

Either that, or quit riding by the ladies. :haha:
I'm still trying hard to be aware of the cars & trucks around me. When I feel more comfortable out there I'll start looking at other people:rolleyes:
I'm hoping to reach the 1K mile break-in mark before the winter weather. I have to be more careful not to reach full-throttle until then.
I think the anti-fog depends a lot on the skill of the applicator. One thing I noticed was better performance on the side that the cloth was wetter.

I don't remember posting any thrust-vectors. The best I can offer now is full-throttle math:
80 mph rumored top end = 60 mph speed + 20 mph headwind
therefore
80 mph top end - 20 mph headwind - hill =< 60 mph speed
I just hope I didn't ruin the engine by lugging it. It seemed ok after downshifting & reaching the crest of the hill, but it was a brief ride after that.

I think if I had an anemometer and an inclinometer (both readily available for sailors) I could weigh the bike & myself and get some neat performance data. It begs for automation, though, doesn't it?

[Biker]

Depends on what you're riding. As mine has 80 cubic inches, I don't worry about that stuff. :lol:

[Kluge]

You're all sworn to secrecy, because I'm not telling anyone around here, but...I fell off the bike today:doh:
It was a left turn from a standing start, at a 3-way traffic light. I mis-judged my lean angle and was going a little wide, but there was a curb there and I got into the undecided zone where more lean would hit the curb or less lean would lose balance, I braked & arrived parallel to the curb, then sort of fell over as if I was standing still but lost balance. No visible changes to the bike. It's only a 250, I just picked it right up, restarted & pulled further ahead to a shoulder.
Almost immediately a police car passed me but I guess he didn't see anything unusual. With no traffic behind me, I went on with a bruised elbow and a bruised ego. And so, with my mood thus altered, I went to vote.

[MNeedham73]

As I believe Biker mentioned once...not a matter of if you drop your bike...it's a matter of when.

You just had your when :)

[ethics]

Yep, and he recovered.

[Kluge]

Of course, it was _a_ when, not _the_ when...

[Biker]

Unwitnessed drops don't count. Wait until you do it in front of a large crowd of people. :lol:

[cmhbob]

Most embarrassing when you're in the middle of a busy intersection and waiting for a long funeral procession to go by, so you get off your bike to direct traffic, and forget to put the stand down, not that I've ever done something like that.

[Kluge]

2002, New in 2004, Bought in 2005 with 500 miles showing.

[jfcjrus]

2002, New in 2004, Bought in 2005 with 500 miles showing.
A beauty.
Just enough to get you in trouble. ;)

Regards,

[Kluge]

Just enough to get you in trouble. ;)
A little off-thread, but, if I zoom in on the picture I can read the plate number on the minivan, but if I save the picture and zoom in with the windows viewer, it's pixelated i.e. fuzzy squares? Am I getting a % loss with each .jpg copy?

[ethics]

This is (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/wmv/backgroundaccident.wmv)what made me not go with a motorcycle at all. Notice the car turning from an opposite side without checking who's coming in the opposite direction?

Yep, the reason is that you will be paying with your life (or limbs) for another's stupidity.

[Biker]

We've been down this road before, Leon.. Yes, there are risks, however, with proper training, those risks can be minimized. Yes, the car turned in front of the motorcycle, however, the motorcyclist was NOT riding defensively. That accident could have been avoided. Easily.

[ethics]

Please tell me how. The guy--it seems-- on the bike was not going fast (40mph?). What do you do when the car on the opposite side of the road decided to do something unexpected like that?

[Biker]

1. You ride like you're invisible.
2. You leave yourself an out.


This is the EXACT type of thing we trained novice AND experienced motorcyclists on. If you have the mindset and skills to go with it, you will come out with your hide intact. I watched that video again. That accident was preventable. Yes, it was the "driver's" fault, but I put blame on the motorcyclist for assuming he has the right of way.

[ethics]

But you still didn't answer the question as to what you would have done? Braked? Would you ALWAYS brake everytime there's a car in the opposite direction slowing down? What if you had an ass behind you?

[Kluge]

If you have the mindset and skills to go with it, you will come out with your hide intact
I agree, although the car driver is not blameless, the biker could have avoided the event.
It isn't right to blame the motorcycle for the event even if another type of vehicle could have protected its occupants better. The issue is similar to the argument that 4 wheel drive vehicles should be as stable as corvettes. It is as necessary to their function to have the tip-over risk as it is for the corvette to have a stuck-in-a-rut risk if used off-road. Thanks for the reminder, though, because it is easy to forget simple things like the added reaction time (especially for new riders like me) while turning the bike momentarily the wrong way to create lean to the right way. And using 2 limbs to operate all the brakes (cybernetically thinking it has to take twice as long).

[Biker]

But you still didn't answer the question as to what you would have done? Braked? Would you ALWAYS brake everytime there's a car in the opposite direction slowing down? What if you had an ass behind you?

In that situation?? You better believe I'd have been slowing down LONG before I got to the car. And because I know my bike, and how hard I can apply the brakes without locking up, you can bet I'd have stopped in time, or given myself an out that I could take at the last second.

[Kluge]

Last night I took a ride with the GZ250 on Interstate 84 (southern NY towards PA). This type of road is the standard for gandering around the USA, so I'd say it's a big test for utility if not everyday needs.
Highway speeds were easy enough at wide-open throttle or less. Climbing long grades I found a lot of times when I could accelerate to 60 mph and beyond in 4th gear but after an upshift to 5th the bike would fall off to 55 or so. If I could hold 55 in 5th I let it work, but below 55 I downshifted & could get up to 60 again. I don't want to run much over 60 in 4th because the owner's manual says the shiftpoint is 37 when accelerating (I take that to mean, don't ever accelerate in 5th below 37). So now I think a 500cc would be a good compromise between mileage, maintenance, and power.
'Your mileage may vary' of course because I'm 200 lbs plus. I could live with this bike anyway except I'd like a wider seat :blush: I plan to try rent-a-harley before I buy again.
BTW, the Bear Mountain Parkway is everything the experts warn you about. Twisty, smooth, great views, rock wall on one side and cliff on the other, two-lane with double-yellow down the middle, falling rock zones, suggested speeds a little higher than I felt safe.

[ethics]

Just signed up with MSS. Gonna get mine around March/April. Got the green light from the misses finally. :)

[MNeedham73]

Going to be a bunch of us on here then. Going to be taking classes and picking up a bike in the spring myself.

Or at least, that's the plan :)

[ethics]

No kidding? You know what that means right?

BIKER FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MNeedham73]

Yep, just need to get the Ranchero sold and out of the garage. Shouldn't be an issue come spring.

And before Biker even suggests it, I won't be getting a Harley. I haven't found a single one I'm comfortable on :)

[ethics]

Kawasaki then, the Vulcans are nice. :)

[MNeedham73]

Oh, I have a list of bikes I'm interested in already :haha:

And the bigger Vulcans are on it :)

[tke711]

And before Biker even suggests it, I won't be getting a Harley. I haven't found a single one I'm comfortable on :)
Ya...that can happen since Harley's are made to fit real men. ;)

[MNeedham73]

Smartass. :)

In all seriousness, it doesn't seem like they are designed very well to fit guys with long legs. I even sat on an Ultra Classic, and with my feet where they would have to be to operate the gearshift and the rear brake, my ankles were at a very uncomfortable angle and my knees were up above either side of the tank.

I'd have to get aftermarket foot controls just to be comfortable, and on a bike as expensive as a Harley, I'm not going to waste my time or money on it.

[tke711]

The guys in the dealership didn't have other options for fitting you? The guy down the hall from me here at work is almost 7', and he said he fits very comfortably on his soft tail. I'm not sure what or if they did anything for him to fit the bike though.

[MNeedham73]

For someone that tall, I think they would have had to customize the bike to accommodate him.

I'm not completely sure about that though, since I honestly didn't even bother trying a soft tail after trying a few other models.

Besides, why bother when I've tried several models from Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki that fit me well without modification? :)

Not to mention they are much cheaper and, in most cases, more reliable.

[tke711]

But they're not a Harley. :)

[cmhbob]

Mike, have you tried any of the BMW's?

K1200LT is their big touring bike, but the K1200GT is also very nice.

[Kluge]

The main reason for a low seat is the wind, I'm sure. If you get a dirt bike I don't think you'll be comfortable at highway speeds for a long time, and the sportbikes have that bent-over frontwards riding position.

I think somebody could build a cruiser with a laid-back backrest that would double as an excuse for a vertical bumper that would keep suv's from squashing the tail. With barely more fairing than a ninja bike, it might be like a 2-wheel indy car with no sides, and hopefully would keep legs from frostbite in cool weather.

Just in case Ethics was fishing for a plug, I'll mention the motorcycle show at the Javits center December 28th to 30th. I think you can find info about it here (http://www.motorcycleshows.com).

[MNeedham73]

Haven't gone looking at them yet. New ones are out of my price range, but from I've seen online, used ones are pretty reasonable.

One bike that has caught my interest is the Honda ST1300 (http://powersports.honda.com/motorcycles/touring_sport_touring/model.asp?ModelName=ST1300+ABS&ModelYear=2008&ModelId=ST1300A8). A lot of great reviews and apparently, a lot of police use them in Europe and love them from what I've read. I went and checked it out a few times and they are very comfortable. The seat being adjustable definitely helps.

There is a motorcycle show here early next year at McCormick Place in Chicago that dad and I are going to go to, so I'll be able to check out pretty much any bike I choose. :)

[ethics]

Whoa! Awesome! Gonna try to make it!

[ethics]

Looks like a rice rocket to me. :)

[tke711]

Here's a bike for you guys.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1648/mopedscooter1ky0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


:lol:

[MNeedham73]

That's the thing, Leon. It's not. It just looks similar to one. You sit upright, not bent over, it has saddle bags (and an optional trunk bag), etc. It is also much bigger.

It's what is classified as a "sport tourer." A bike you can have fun with, but still be able to ride all day long.

[Kluge]

One bike that has caught my interest is... about $16K. Which (trading some speed & economy for accomodations & year-round ability) could buy this:

[MNeedham73]

I don't intend to buy new :)

[cmhbob]

Eh, be careful on the ST1300. It's probably just a police issue, but several police officers have been killed on ST1300Ps, enough that some agencies are pulling the bikes from service. Here's a link (http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31321) to a discussion about it. It's a high-speed (85+ MPH) rear-end wobble, and the suspicion I'm hearing is that it has to do with the extra weight of the police stuff on the back end coupled with poor suspension setup.

[MNeedham73]

Hmm, I've been checking out those forums and must have missed that thread. Thanks Bob. Sounds like, from a few posts, that the ST does have a weaving issue at high speed (although some of the speeds mentioned I would never do) even if not set up for police use.

Yamaha's FJR1300 is on my list also (similar bike). My dispatcher and her husband both ride those and have been talking that bike up to me a LOT lol. They took theirs to Deal's Gap, NC last summer and didn't have any issues down there riding the "Tail of the Dragon" at all.

[Biker]

Santa is delivering this next week. :biggrin:

[tke711]

That exact bike?

Nice!!!

(Must resist comment on girlie purple color...must resist...) ;)

[Biker]

Picture doesn't do justice to the actual color. It's a very deep purple with metal flake. A definite eye catcher on the street. Besides, she likes purple.. ;)

[ethics]

Nice!

Here's what I am leaning towards:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3231/kawasakivulcan2000bg4.jpg

[Biker]

Buddy of mine just tuned one of those up. Very nice ride. Not wild about the headlamp assembly, however it's a sweet ride. Get the plexiglass shield to go with it and you'll love riding it.

[Biker]

Just signed up with MSS. Gonna get mine around March/April. Got the green light from the misses finally. :)

Holy crap! Missed this one!

OK... Time for the GA riders to start making plans for a Sturgis run (http://www.sturgis-rally.com/) next fall! :biggrin:

[Kluge]

...Here's what I am leaning towards...
My bike is similar as far as the dual exhaust on one side, and it has its drawbacks.

For one thing, the bike is heavier on the right side so it leans a little bit left when going straight. Not noticeable really, just a feeling I got used to, but I could see the tire wearing more on the left side too.

Second thing, when I put saddle bags on, the double pipe on the right was high enough to contact the bottom of the right side saddlebag. The bags aren't very big and I tightened them up but they sag over time. The burning stuff smell is annoying when it happens and I can't put any low-melting point materials on the bottom of the right side bag. I improved things a little by taking the perforated stainless thing that sits behind the extra drive bay knockout on one of my PC's and poking matching holes in the bottom of the right side saddlebag, then tying a leather thong (don't get excited now) through the saddlebag and the drive bay metal thing to make a spacer. It keeps a quarter inch gap between the bag and the top tailpipe and only scratches the chrome a little bit. It transmits some heat but not melting-hot heat.

[MNeedham73]

Picture doesn't do justice to the actual color. It's a very deep purple with metal flake. A definite eye catcher on the street. Besides, she likes purple.. ;)

Saw one in that color at the local Harley dealer. It is an awesome color, Tom. Congrats!

[tke711]

Picture doesn't do justice to the actual color. It's a very deep purple with metal flake. A definite eye catcher on the street. Besides, she likes purple.. ;)

I'm sure it looks sweet. I'll be over at Harley HQ right after the new year, so I'll have to look for it to see it in person.

[MNeedham73]

Nice Leon. I'm with Tom about the headlight assembly, but it is a nice bike.

If I get the bike I really want, it'll be this. A Honda Valkyrie Interstate. Honda hasn't made them in several years, but I can still find them readily enough in good shape and low miles. I've wanted one for years.

http://www.psndealer.com/powersportsdlr/images/NewVehicles/2001valkyrieinterstate.jpg

[cmhbob]

Hey, those are great bikes. Lots of room in the trunk and bags. Our company used them for a couple of years, and they've got torque out the ying-yang. Be ready for it. And yeah, you can still find them all over the place.

I noticed we had trouble with the stereo wiring developing a short after about 65k miles.

In the summer, it's a very cool bike to ride temp-wise. Not sure about temps in the winter, as by winter, I was on a GL1800.

You can find plenty of aftermarket stuff to dress them up, too. One nice trick I saw was a set of fog/driving lights on the lowers.

My favorite Valkyrie story. (http://www.anti-squirrel.com/squirrel_attacks_biker.html)

[MNeedham73]

Yeah, those 1500cc 6 cylinders do put some power down. From what I understand, the GL1800 is why Honda stopped building them.

First aftermarket item if I get one will be Cobra 6-pipe exhaust ;)

[Biker]

My favorite Valkyrie story. (http://www.anti-squirrel.com/squirrel_attacks_biker.html)

Gotta be faster than that.. :whistle:

http://www.globalaffairs.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34426

[cmhbob]

Hey, I left the double-post of Achmed's Christmas Story alone; the least you could have done was leave this one alone. :)

[Kluge]

Just went to the motorcycle show and bought this (http://trailerinabag.com/products.html) for a little over $1300:

[ethics]

Second thing, when I put saddle bags on, the double pipe on the right was high enough to contact the bottom of the right side saddlebag.

Wrong saddle bags then, Kluge.

Btw, the Vulcan's pipes? Here's how one guy describes them:

Now for the fun part. If you're a cruiser rider, sound is probably the single most important factor when looking for a bike, and I found the perfect sound. Flip the start switch, and the electronic ignition fires the beast anxiously to life. After a few seconds of warm-up, the engine settles into an easy lope. Poems could be written about the note this motorcycle creates. Like a Harley, the engine uses a single-pin crank which provides the classic "potato-potato" sound, but the sound is so much sweeter than that. While Harleys can seem to be a little raspy or unbalanced, the combination of a 125 cubic inch engine and Vance & Hines pipes creates a deep, melodic rhythm that must experienced first-hand to be described. If you've ever heard a classic American V-8 muscle car with Magnaflow mufflers, then you've got a good idea of what I'm talking about. The tone is rich, deep, and thumps against your chest. The bike is quiet enough at idle not to disturb your neighbors, but give the throttle a good twist, and watch out! The massive 46mm throttle bodies open up, sucking down gobs of fresh air, and the engine absolutely BARKS. This is an excellent feature when trying to maneuver through traffic, or when you're cruising the boulevard and checking out the local scene. Believe me, people will notice when you crack the throttle.

I could salivate all day over the exhaust note, so I better quit now.

[MNeedham73]

Kawasaki Vulcan 2000 with Cobra Exhaust on it. Enjoy Leon :)

http://www.cobrausa.com/images/4923_760.jpg

[MNeedham73]

And just for giggles, a Honda Valkyrie with Cobra's 6-into-6 pipes.

http://www.cobrausa.com/images/1269_760.jpg

[ethics]

Music to my ears.

[Kluge]

Wrong saddle bags then, Kluge.

...The massive 46mm throttle bodies open up, sucking down gobs of fresh air, and the engine absolutely BARKS. This is an excellent feature when trying to maneuver through traffic, or when you're cruising the boulevard and checking out the local scene. Believe me, people will notice when you crack the throttle.

I saw stock saddlebags at the show that had a clip near the bottom to hook onto the metal supports and keep the bag from sagging onto the pipe. It looked do-able with my bags.

The loud exhaust, though, is not something I'm looking for. I'm sure my exhaust is stock and it is loud when started in the wee hours of the morning. Sure I can hear other bikes out blast me on the expressway, but my helmet makes enough noise to drown out my exhaust (to my ears) at highway speed. Who is going to be impressed then? I want an exhaust that's as quiet as my 850 Spider was. A 900 cc four, 1600 pounds, and it got 50 mpg from Newbergh to West Babylon one balmy afternoon.

[ethics]

The loud exhaust, though, is not something I'm looking for.

When I was younger, I thought that the loud bikers were attention whores, "hey, look at me!" As I got older, and actually started talking to people who ride cruisers, I finally understood why the SOUND is one of the more important aspects of the bike and it's not for attention whoring... but close.

It IS to be noticed, but noticed by the car drivers because one of the liabilities of riding a bike is being seen. If they can't see it, the next best thing is that they hear you coming and going.

[MNeedham73]

As the bumper sticker says "Loud pipes save lives" :)

[Kluge]

I don't loud pipes are worth it.
Mistake 1: Expecting other drivers to avoid you. Bad Karma, that. You should be thinking about getting around or away from them. Why do they teach us to keep the bike in gear at stop lights with left hand on the clutch? To get away from blind moronic drivers.
Mistake 2: Assuming that you will be saved from inattentive drivers more often than you will be put in danger due to sending the other driver into shock or road rage.
Mistake 3: Assuming that anything you ride can make more noise than other drivers. Them sonsabitches got bigger engines with bigger pipes and boom-box radios trying to drown out their own exhaust. Fuggedaboudit. If you're dealing with a truck, half the time the wind, loose nuts & bolts make more noise than your pipes ever will.
Mistake 4: What happens after you are deaf and go back to driving your Chevette? You run over a bike, maybe.
I asked at the show (at the Cobra display, no less) if they make any quiet exhaust. Nope. If I want quiet I have to go custom, way beyond bolt-on. That's ok, I got a business card from a chrome plating shop and I can probably use a quiet muffler from a 'smart car'. The question is how loud is a quiet muffler when you are almost sitting on it?

[ethics]

I don't loud pipes are worth it.
Mistake 1: Expecting other drivers to avoid you. Bad Karma, that. You should be thinking about getting around or away from them. Why do they teach us to keep the bike in gear at stop lights with left hand on the clutch? To get away from blind moronic drivers.


Oh absolutely! Biking is all about defensive driving on steroids, and opposite for cars, speed is your friend.

Mistake 2: Assuming that you will be saved from inattentive drivers more often than you will be put in danger due to sending the other driver into shock or road rage.

True.

Mistake 3: Assuming that anything you ride can make more noise than other drivers. Them sonsabitches got bigger engines with bigger pipes and boom-box radios trying to drown out their own exhaust. Fuggedaboudit. If you're dealing with a truck, half the time the wind, loose nuts & bolts make more noise than your pipes ever will.

Highway? Absolutely. In Urban situations such as NYC, trucks are not allowed on the same roads you will be traveling.

Mistake 4: What happens after you are deaf and go back to driving your Chevette? You run over a bike, maybe.

The noise the pipes makes won't be felt by you as much as the noise distribution for others around you.

But, excellent post nevertheless, Kluge!

[Kluge]

I didn't mean to go ape-shxt about loud exhaust, I have to work & play well with the other children, of course. I do wish for an electric-quiet bike, though, just for getting in & out without announcing to everyone that I'm doing something.

I was riding along US1 in Connecticut one night (my days off are at night) looking for the Bridgeport to Port Jefferson ferry. I stopped at a 7-11 & when a guy commented about the bike I asked about the ferry. He said it wasn't safe for bikers at night, since it's almost in the middle of the University of Bridgeport and he got chased by a bunch of locals once. I assume they were angry frat-boys getting ready for finals. I didn't have any trouble getting lost there on my 250cc, but the exhaust for that could be kept quiet by riding gently.

I am thinking about these Supertrapp (http://www.supertrapp.com/product_sections/motorcycle/index.asp) guys, but they don't list my model number in stock products. According to stuff I read about them (in the 1970's) you can tune the dB's down by adding back pressure to the exhaust and it is adjustable with the amateur tool kit by adding or removing restrictive parts.

[MNeedham73]

I'm heading to the Cycle World International Motorcycle Show tomorrow. Anyone have any pic requests? I will be taking my camera :)

[cmhbob]

Any police bike shots would be good. I know there are 2-3 Harleys (Road King, ELectra Glide, and Dyna Defender), the Honda ST1100/1300P, and the BMW R1200RTP. Yamaha has a police offering (FJR1300P), but I think it's only a Euro bike.

Have fun!

[ethics]

I'm heading to the Cycle World International Motorcycle Show tomorrow. Anyone have any pic requests? I will be taking my camera :)

Kawasaki cruisers would be nice. Anything by Yamaha in the Cruiser dept. as well.