Deliberate Chicken Pox(was How Technology Changed My Life)

[ethics]

This topic came from <a href="http://www.globalaffairs.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3616">this thread</a>.

Originally posted by wapu
I didn't fully realize how bad I was until my wife told me that she would prefer childbirth again, because that only lasted 33 hours.:) I would not recommend it to anybody. Even those people I don't like real well.


Wapu, serious question now.

Based on your experience, would you deliberately give your kids, Chicken Pox in order for them not to go through the same hell as you have?

Considering, of course, they do not get it "naturally".

[BigDeputyDog]

If I may, I'd like to answer that question...

In a single word... YES!

I don't know if it was the practice when you were a child, but when I was young your parents tried to find a youngster with chicken pox so that you could get exposed...

Maybe our parents knew more than we gave them credit for...

BDD... :{)

[ethics]

Wow, thanks for an honest answer, BDD. I thought it was only few people like me who understood CP and how horrid it is during adulthood.

Granted, I didn't have to do this with my daughter, but I think I would have if by, say, 8 she didn't have them.

[mikeky]

My fear is that a few years from now we will find the protection from the chicken pox vaccine most children are receiving now has worn off (I know it's not supposed to, but still), and it won't be very pleasant when they get it as adults. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do given that many schools require the vaccination unless the child has had it.

[ethics]

Mike, why do you feel the vaccine will wear out? I haven't seen anything on this?

[mikeky]

<a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/varicella/faqs-gen-vaccine.htm#20-lengthprotect">CDC on the vaccine</a>
How long does the vaccine protect someone against chickenpox? Will a booster vaccination be needed?
The length of protection/immunity from any new vaccine is never known when it is first introduced. However, available information collected from persons vaccinated in Japan in the United States show that protection has lasted for as long as the vaccinated persons have been followed (25 years in Japan and more than 10 years in the U.S.). Follow up studies to determine how long protection will last and to evaluate the need and timing for booster vaccination, are ongoing. If it is determined in the future that a booster dose is necessary, your health care provider will inform you. Currently, no booster dose is recommended.

I really don't have a basis other than the lack of long-term use in the U.S. Hopefully if it turns out protection does not last a lifetime, we'll be able to recognize that from the other countries with longer programs in place and adjust. Still, makes me wonder if it's worth the risk, although in the end, we had our two vaccinated.

[ethics]

So basically, they do not know how long this vaccine will last?

Comforting :rolleyes:

[joseftu]

I've been in a bit of a quandary about this myself. My daughter is now seven and has not had chicken pox. The doctor has been discussing the vaccine with us each year.
He's not pushing it, and not against it, either.
One thing he has said is that the vaccine has been given in the US for a lot more than 10 years (I think he said 20) to children who had compromised immune systems, for whom chicken pox would be a real disaster. The vaccine's effectiveness has not diminished at all in those 20 years. So it's looking pretty good.
The other factor is that more and more kids are getting vaccinated (like almost all), so the chances of getting exposed are getting less and less.
I'm not sure what to do. I think if my daughter does not get chicken pox in the next year or so, the vaccine will be the best choice. But it really doesn't look like she will. Just about all the kids in her school (I imagine) have either had the vaccine or the disease.
If I knew someone who had chicken pox, I don't think I would intentionally expose her (isn't the disease most contagious before symptoms appear, anyhow?), but I would be kind of relieved if she just caught it and got it over with.
I sure as hell don't want her to get chicken pox as an adult, or even a teenager.

[ethics]

What's the difference between being glad she will get it and intentionally giving it to her?

[Coriolis]

My wife and I debated about the Chicken Pox vaccine when our son was younger, but we decided against it at the time. It seemed to make more sense to let him (as with both of us) to get exposed at an early age, have it done with, and not have to worry about it again or risk the possible side effects of the vaccine. However, he somehow never got exposed (probably because most kids he's around are vaccinated!), and we had a hell of a time getting him admitted into Kindergarden without him either having been exposed or having the vaccine. We ended up having to get him vaccinated... there are some fights worth fighting, but this just didn't seem to be worth it. I hope I don't regret this decision someday.

[ditch]

My wife wanted to take our kids to "Chicken Pox Parties". If she had explianed it differently or the organised infecting was given a different name I might have been more agreeable. As it turned out they caught it without going to the party and so did I at 39. Got shingles as a result too which made me wish I had caught it as a child instead. Mumps is another one thats better off having when your young. I caught that in my thirties also with my doctor telling me there were only two things I should worry about. Fortunately the swelling didn't get below my neck but some mature males do suffer when it gets to the testicles.

[ethics]

I must tell you that when it comes to Chicken Pox, I'd have no qualms about making my kid's life better in the long run by purposely infecting them.

Just my humble opinion.

[ditch]

Originally posted by ethics
I must tell you that when it comes to Chicken Pox, I'd have no qualms about making my kid's life better in the long run by purposely infecting them.

Just my humble opinion.

I share that view now too but the idea of deliberately infecting was a difficult thing to accept at the time.

There was at one time here, a small but vocal group of parents who were against immunisation of any kind. For them the idea of injecting a child with the infection you were defending against was wrong and harmful to their kids. A view borne out of ignorance of the principle of immunisation. Govt. regulations now have made it compulsory for immunisation against some childhood diseases.

[ethics]

Oh, there are weirdos everywhere, I usually do not even pay attention to the masses of people...unless they make sense and agree with me. ;)

No, to me, it's more about knowing what Chicken Pox is later in life without prior infections, and what it is during a kid's life. Then weighing the risks of both.

[Sharondippity]

I had chicken pox at 3, then again at 12 years old. I was a mature 12 year old, and the second round was too horrible to explain. I lost some fingernails due to them getting underneath them. They were in my eyes, my nose, all throughout my mouth and throat, my tongue had cracks in it from them, and everywhere else. Everywhere. The agony of feeling that sick and itchy was almost enough to make me insane. This was before cable TV, and I couldn't see well enough to read.

I also had a shingles episode last April, so it is a horrible thing to get if avoidable. If you have any way to avoid getting this disease in a milder fashion, then do it. It is a horrible experience for an adult to endure.

[ethics]

Sharon, if that description didn't change anyone's mind here, I do not know what will.

Sounds like you were tortured.

[mikeky]

Maybe the choice to expose is going away; as someone above posted, it may get to the point where it's hard to expose your child because the cases are so scattered. I know I can't think of any of our friends children who have had chicken pox over the last 5 years. I just hope they (our children) don't pay the price 20 years from now.

[Techie2000]

I had the Chicken Pox in Kindergarten before that newfangled vaccine crap came out. I'm glad I did. The last thing I need is another needle stuck in me. Yeah the vaccine is new, and mikeky you are right the choice is going away. The vaccine is making it harder and harder to find people with the pox to spread it. I don't know how it will be in 20 years. But I predict that within the century Chicken Pox will be almost non existant.

[ShinyTop]

If people can call a swift swat on the backside of a tantrum throwing child abuse then somebody, someday will call deliberate exposure child abuse. Makes more sense than the occasional richly deserved spanking.

[joseftu]

Shiny, I won't go into the corporal punishment issue (you and I have been down that road before, I believe ;) ), but I think the accusations of abuse have more frequently (and rightfully, I would say) been directed the other way--
Parents who fail to immunize (not for chicken pox, but for other illnesses) may be accused of abuse. I don't know that it's happened, but it's certainly possible.
I'm thinking of a NY Times article over the weekend about a community near Seattle, where the majority of parents don't immunize. There was a description of one mother, whose children got whooping cough. She described her family's suffering, and then blithely estimated that her kids probably infected ten or twelve other neighborhood kids, too.
In cases like that, I wonder if an accusation of child abuse might be perfectly justifiable.
But maybe this issue (and I should probably find a link to the article) could go in another thread.

[ShinyTop]

You're right and we will not change the other's opinion. I apologize if it looked like I was trolling for a fight, I was not. It was said more in irony than anything else.

[joseftu]

No, no apologies necessary. I did get the irony, and did not fall into the sarchasm!
But this issue of vaccinations is an interesting one to me. The article I was referring to (if memory serves) contained the astonishing statement,
"Well-baby care is child abuse."
That's what really triggered me.

[mikeky]

If I can revive this thread, strangely enough there was a wave of chicken pox that swept through the local elementary school a few weeks ago, and both our children, ages 6 and 8, both of whom had the vaccine, caught them. Fortunately, their cases were very mild, only about 10 spots total, without much itching it seems.

So it's definitely possible to get chicken pox even though one has had the vaccine, although it seems those that had the vaccine get a much milder case (based not only on our experience, but others in the local school system as well).

[ethics]

Thanks for the update... The same is said for the Whooping Cough, which is making a comeback in the US.

[bruzzes]

Hate to bring this up, but for those who have had chickenpox, a definite experience may greet you when you get older.

Shingles is caused by the varicella-zoster virus, the same virus that causes chickenpox. After an attack of chickenpox, the virus lies dormant in the nerve tissue. As we get older, it is possible for the virus to reappear in the form of shingles. Shingles is estimated to affect 2 in every 10 persons in their lifetime. This year, more than 500,000 people will develop shingles. Fortunately, there is currently research being done to find a vaccine to prevent the disease.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/shinglesFS.htm

I recently contracted shingles in November and the experience was not enjoyable. My blisters ran from the top of my behind all the way to the back of my knees.

The area remained extremely painful for 3 months before subsiding.
I was going to upload a picture but decided not to due to it'd graphical content. ;). The following link shows what to expect...
http://www.aad.org/pamphlets/herpesZoster.html

[ShinyTop]

I had shingles last May and it is relatively benign in its long term effects but the experience was very painful and very drugged. Mine was on the side of my head running down my neck. The scars are visible.

[mikeky]

Hate to bring this up, but for those who have had chickenpox, a definite experience may greet you when you get older.

Shingles is caused by the varicella-zoster virus, the same virus that causes chickenpox. ...
Yep, from what I've heard those are definitely not a good experience. Hopefully any vaccine for it will work well for it, or at least diminish the effects as with the chicken pox.

[joseftu]

Probably a good time to revive this thread, actually. I saw an article recently (I'll try to dig it up if nobody else saw it) which said that it looks like, as time goes by, the vaccine is turning out to be ineffective. We're getting kids who were vaccinated early, who are now ten or twelve, and are getting the chicken pox.

Our doctor was very ambivalent about it, but finally, when our daughter turned eight and still had not been exposed, we went ahead and got the vaccination.

[mikepd]

I have had shingles and it is most unpleasant. As a matter of fact, once the pustules had dried up was when my doctor put me on Duragesic for the pain which is how I knew about the drug for pain management and how I am on a much larger dose now (62.5ug vs. 25ug) than I was when I had the shingles.

Of course, now my medical problems have, how shall we say, gotten a bit more interesting. :)

Next month my dose goes to 75ug and that should, I hope, be the last increase in Duragesic I will need for quite some time.

Any vaccine still carries the risk of you getting whatever you are being vaccinated against. The goal is to lessen the chance and in the even of an episode of the disease, a decrease in the severity of the effects.

[ethics]

So all of you folks that have been hit with pox/shingles in your adult life. Would you, if you had that option, opt for your parents to have deliberately infected you with chicken pox when you were a kid?

[cdw]

So all of you folks that have been hit with pox/shingles in your adult life. Would you, if you had that option, opt for your parents to have deliberately infected you with chicken pox when you were a kid?

I had chicken pox as a kid. Just because you had chicken pox once doesn't mean you can't get it again. So, even though I had the pox (i have a little scar from one of the pox still to this day), I still got shingles. I think you will find most of the people who have had shingles also had the pox as a kid.