View Full Version : Israel Coalition Nears Collapse
ethics
10-30-2002, 01:06 AM
More proof about Middle East and the ironic and contradictory way politics run there.
On one side, we have the <a href="http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021029-044942-5338r">Palestinian Cabinet gets confidence vote</a>.
On the other, Israel's coalition is in real jeopardy over <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/30/international/middleeast/30ISRA.html?ex=1036558800&en=a4221e722d9e3047&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE">Sharon's proposal to spend money on settlements rather than on other social needs.</a>
Then again, I am not surprised. Jews wanting to better themselves while the Palestinians want to go the status quo, why oust a terrorist like Arafat?
yazdzik
10-30-2002, 02:31 AM
Terrorism and Zionism are popular....
Originally posted by yazdzik
Terrorism and Zionism are popular.... And so it would seem is brevity ;)
pupowski
10-30-2002, 07:31 PM
Palestinians see Sharon as a terrorist, and many, myself included, see his administration as an unmitigated disaster for Israel. He sought to achieve peace through force, and failed. Israel is less secure now than at any time since it was founded. With mayhem striking at all levels of society, nobody feels safe anymore. Israel's settlements in the occupied territories are the far right dream that became a nightmare for Israel. They are symbols of oppression, targets that are increasingly difficult to justify and defend.
Sir Joseph
10-30-2002, 08:25 PM
Your argument is a clear example of <i>Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc</i>. To say that Israel is less secure because of Sharon is missing something I like to call facts. What about Israel under Rabin or Peres? I know, what about Israel next to the Palestinians who want to kill them all? Israel settlements in the "disputed territories" are not the cause of violence. There has been violence even before Israel became a state. If you give up the territories, what is stopping the Arabs from hitting Tel-Aviv? I think it's time to call a spade a spade. The Muslims are not peace loving. It's about time we should be allowed to say that without being arrested by the PC police.
pupowski
10-31-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Sir Joseph
Your argument is a clear example of <i>Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc</i>. To say that Israel is less secure because of Sharon is missing something I like to call facts. What about Israel under Rabin or Peres? I suggest you check your own facts and logic, because by almost every measurable standard, Israeli citizens are less secure since Sharon took office. The settlements represent a policy of encroachment, a half step that pleases nobody. To seize the territories and displace the Palestineans was not politicly acceptable, and nobody could anticipate the extremes of future intifadas. As a result, the settlements are extremely vulnerable, and difficult to defend. Peres moved Israel toward peace, as did Rabin, with the Oslo agreements, and a peace treaty with Jordan. He was a great patriot, assassinated by a right wing fanatic, and Israeli security has deteriorated markedly since his death, as has the economy. So I ask you, what is so good about this Sharon administration, other than your opinion? Weigh his accomplishments and failures, consider the relative merits, then refute my assertion , if you can.
Sir Joseph
11-02-2002, 08:22 PM
Here's an interesting editorial from the NY Post. It raises some very interesting points.
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/24643.htm
pupowski
11-03-2002, 02:23 AM
I think a drift to the right is bad news for Israel, but that is what the law allows until voters decide otherwise. Sharon is principled, but his principles, like those of the Nazi's, are not above reproach.
Sir Joseph
11-03-2002, 11:49 AM
Cool. It only took 8 posts for Nazi to be entered into a thread regarding Israel. I think that's a new record.
jamming
11-03-2002, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Sir Joseph
Cool. It only took 8 posts for Nazi to be entered into a thread regarding Israel. I think that's a new record.
What I am wondering is will we have a Hogan's Heros type of show based in the Palestine Refugee Camps.
BTW, Sir Joseph
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Sir Joseph
11-03-2002, 12:00 PM
Thanks.
BTW Pups,
A drift to the right in Israel is just like a drift to the right here. Does that mean that just because there is a move to the right, they are Nazis? If so, that's typical liberal crap. If you disagree with someone, label them. The Israelis tried it the appeasment way and it didn't work. It didn't work for Czechoslovakia and it didn't work for Israel. I don't understand what is so hard for people to let Israel say "we want to live." As far as politics, this in my opinion was a terrible mistake for Labor. According to my sources, not only will Sharon win, but he will lead with a much greater margin.
On a side note, this is like the 6th or 7th?? election in Israel since Oslo. How many have the Palestinians have?