Star Trek Archetypes/The Failure of Enterprise

[SixofNine]

We started talking about the demise of Enterprise in the Battlestar Galactica thread. I mentioned that I was tired of some of the plot crutches that Star Trek writers rely upon, but perhaps Enterprise's failure is paradoxically a failure to follow some essential elements of the Star Trek playbook.

I wasted, er, I mean, spent my lunch break analyzing the Star Trek archetypes and the characters who filled them. A question mark indicates that I don't know enough about the character (my DS9 body of knowledge is not up to snuff). Also, this analysis pertains to TV series only, not movies.

Please feel free to improve this list:

Horn Dog

TOS: Kirk
TNG: Riker
DS9: Bashir?
Voyager: Parris
Enterprise: nobody

Brainy Brain

TOS: Spock
TNG: Data
DS9: Dax?
Voyager: 7of9
Enterprise: T'Pouty (thanks for that moniker, SM :) )

Lovable Mutt

TOS: Spock (part-time). You could also make a case for elements of McCoy's and Scottie's characters
TNG: Data
DS9: Quark
Voyager: Neelix
Enterprise: Archer's dog

Hottie

TOS: Yeoman Rand (before the drugs), Uhura, just about every single female extra and guest star
TNG: none for me, but for the sake of discussion, Troi
DS9: Dax (#1 and #2), Kira (for me - I just loved that perky Bajoran butt)
Voyager: 7of9, :notworthy Kes (before the drugs), B'Elanna
Enterprise: T'Pouty, Sato

Wayfarer/Capitalist/Black Marketeer/Knows the Local Neighborhood

TOS: Harcourt Fenton "Harry" Mudd
TNG: various Ferengi
DS9: Quark
Voyager: Neelix
Enterprise: nobody

Asskicker

TOS: Spock
TNG: Worf, Data
DS9: Worf, Odo
Voyager: 7of9 :notworthy
Enterprise: nobody

As you can see, my pseudo-scientific, crypto-authoritative analysis reveals an appaling lack of role-filling on the part of Enterprise. Could that have been the cause of its failure?

Brian

[Steve]

That's a good analysis and may be part of the problem. I also think the structure of each episode affects matters.

TOS had fairly short, simple, standalone episodes, with a rare two-parter here or there. You could enjoy each episode by itself and not really need to know a whole lot about what was going on.

TNG expanded the Trek universe and, while each episode mostly stood on its own, there was a loose narrative woven throughout each season that, if you weren't watching regularly, you missed a lot.

DS9 was just an epic sci-fi movie broken into TV episodes. Miss a couple, and you may as well give up and catch the movie "later".

Enterprise isn't as "epic" as DS9, but there's a definite storyline connecting each episode that, again, if you miss a couple of episodes, it breaks the storyline, leaving you unmotivated to pick it back up again.

[Piobaireachd]

We started talking about the demise of Enterprise in the Battlestar Galactica thread. I mentioned that I was tired of some of the plot crutches that Star Trek writers rely upon, but perhaps Enterprise's failure is paradoxically a failure to follow some essential elements of the Star Trek playbook.

I wasted, er, I mean, spent my lunch break analyzing the Star Trek archetypes and the characters who filled them. A question mark indicates that I don't know enough about the character (my DS9 body of knowledge is not up to snuff). Also, this analysis pertains to TV series only, not movies.

Please feel free to improve this list:

Horn Dog

TOS: Kirk
TNG: Riker
DS9: Bashir?
Voyager: Parris
Enterprise: nobody

Brainy Brain

TOS: Spock
TNG: Data
DS9: Dax?
Voyager: 7of9
Enterprise: T'Pouty (thanks for that moniker, SM :) )

Lovable Mutt

TOS: Spock (part-time). You could also make a case for elements of McCoy's and Scottie's characters
TNG: Data
DS9: Quark
Voyager: Neelix
Enterprise: Archer's dog

Hottie

TOS: Yeoman Rand (before the drugs), Uhura, just about every single female extra and guest star
TNG: none for me, but for the sake of discussion, Troi
DS9: Dax (#1 and #2), Kira (for me - I just loved that perky Bajoran butt)
Voyager: 7of9, :notworthy Kes (before the drugs), B'Elanna
Enterprise: T'Pouty, Sato

Wayfarer/Capitalist/Black Marketeer/Knows the Local Neighborhood

TOS: Harcourt Fenton "Harry" Mudd
TNG: various Ferengi
DS9: Quark
Voyager: Neelix
Enterprise: nobody

Asskicker

TOS: Spock
TNG: Worf, Data
DS9: Worf, Odo
Voyager: 7of9 :notworthy
Enterprise: nobody

As you can see, my pseudo-scientific, crypto-authoritative analysis reveals an appaling lack of role-filling on the part of Enterprise. Could that have been the cause of its failure?

Brian
I believe the Doctor from Enterprise has to fit in there somewhere...

He was stable, often the voice of reason, and quirky.

[Steve]

Way OT, but I'm going to have to hunt you down and kill you, with a sig like that! :)

[ethics]

It's awesome, no? Hope no one misses the joke. :)

[Steve]

If anyone here misses that joke, we should just ban them. They belong over at the Watercooler at DSLR ;)

[Piobaireachd]

:)

[SixofNine]

I believe the Doctor from Enterprise has to fit in there somewhere...

He was stable, often the voice of reason, and quirky.

For me he was frequently a Lovable Mutt,, but he might also qualify as a Brainy Brain. On the other hand, you might have identified another archetype, The Voice of Reason, usually somebody who counsels the captain.

TOS: Spock and McCoy
TNG: Picard (too damn reasonable to need anybody else)
DS9: hmmmm...Odo?
Voyager: The Doctor (though he did go nuts once), Chakotay (once that minor detail of his membership in the Maquis was smoothed out)
Enterprise: nobody (T'Pouty had that weird condition and seemed willing to try some of that Terran strange).

Also, how about:

The All-Powerful Being

TOS: several (e.g., the Greek/Roman god-types who made Kirk and Spock dance and recite Tweedledee/Tweedledum)
TNG: Q
DS9: The Gods
Voyager: Q, Kes (after the drugs)
Enterprise: nobody

Brian

[Stiofán]

My biggest problem with the show and one of the main reasons I don't watch it much, is the characterization of the crew. This crew was supposed to be much more like our present day astronauts, but for our first ship to go out and explore we send a crew which is confused, wimpy, lacking in confidence, troubled, hesitant, etc, etc, etc? Our rocket jockeys of today (and yesterday) are some of the most highly trained and confident folks going. Archer especially, is always second guessing himself, nobody seems especially trained well, the linguistics chick panics every time she has to do something, the whole thing is just dumb. A third rate show, I know they are in trouble when I start wishing DS9 was still playing. At least they had some interesting characters in the crew/station.

Good riddance.

[Sierra Mike]

Stiofàn's right--the characters suck. Rarely are they put into perilous situations where a formulaic script can't get them out of it, and with the minimum amount of action. For instance, take the TOS episode "The Naked Time", where after going through a completely bizarre reckoning of emotional upheaval, we discover that Lt. Riley (who should have been confined to an airlock with a flatulent Klingon) switched off the engines. The show was done on the cheap, but the tension was there...

In Enterprise, these guys can't even aim their weapons systems properly. Sheesh. They act like idiots when they're supposed to be professionals, and their problem-solving skills seemingly consist of reading a rule book and scanning the bold face type as opposed to innovating and troubleshooting, the way all of us do in real life. To whit, it was so one-dimensional even T'Pouty's boobicles couldn't elicit the proper response and get me to watch more than a handful of episodes over a four-year run.

SM

[warlock56]

I've had my complaints about each series I've watched but overall my ratings of them are good.

For example, one thing I had about TNG was in the most recent movies. You notice they tried to make Picard into someone he was not...suddenly he was an old man in the movies who knew how to tango and seduce women and such. He was not that in the series. Sure he had some women, but he had a different style about him. The writers like screwing stuff up with the characters.

Next for example was the acting of Avery Brooks, aka Benjamin Sisko in DS9. His acting slowly went from bad to worse as the show progressed.

My other complaint is the writers enjoy reusing old episodes into new series'. Example: the Doctor on Voyager gets confused in a holodeck misshap and can't figure out who he is and can't tell if he has to end the program (by blowing up the warp core) or sit around for the crew to save him. Boy, we've never went through that type sort of theme before for an episode :rolleyes:

However I did enjoy the war plotlines in DS9 during the 5th season onward, plus I really looked forward to each new episode of the Xindi plot to destroy Earth on Enterprise. With the bad comes some good, but I really would like to see many many more space battles, but alas they claim they just don't have the budget for it.

[Sierra Mike]

Hottie

TNG: none for me, but for the sake of discussion, Troi

Come on, my pal Michelle Forbes was awesome as Ro Laren. :) Too bad she hated the show.

SM

[SixofNine]

Come on, my pal Michelle Forbes was awesome as Ro Laren. :) Too bad she hated the show.Got me there, I forgot her because of her part-time status. She has the distinction (I think) of introducing us to Bajorans, too.

While we're at it, how about Ensign Robin Lefler, i.e., Ashley Judd? How could I forget her?????? :eek: She was even in one of my all-time favorite TNG episodes: Darmok.

Brian

[archidante]

when is it on?

[SixofNine]

when is it on?Enterprise is on Friday nights at 8:00 PM eastern time.

Brian

[Stiofán]

Come on, my pal Michelle Forbes was awesome as Ro Laren. :) Too bad she hated the show.

SM

Ensign Ro? She always seemed a little too hard core for me.

Like she could throw me and **** me before I could flip her and **** her. :cool:

[SixofNine]

I might have to disqualify Ensigns Ro and Lefler from consideration for Hottie archetype status because they didn't play the minimum number of innings. :)

Brian

[warlock56]

Sierra Mike: You know Michelle Forbes personally? Nice...I thought she did a good job of playing the character near the end of season 6 where she joined the Maquis. I think that was when that episode occured, can't recall.

That girl that played Robin Lefler was hot...who was the other woman that played Wesley's one episode girlfriend when Riker brought on board those orgasmic visual interface games? Or was that Lefler...can't remember.

[Sierra Mike]

I do know her in real life, yeah. Or, more accurately, I did--haven't seen nor spoken to her in a while. Last time I saw her was when I was in LA and she was starting out on 24. She's a personable lady, and pretty attractive, I might add...but woefully, the Sierra Mike Mojo was not enough.

SM

[SixofNine]

That girl that played Robin Lefler was hot...Well, as I said above, that was friggin' Ashley Judd!!!! :drool: Her character kissed Wesley Crusher, so I think it was her.

Brian

[Sierra Mike]

Wesley Crusher got to kiss Ashley Judd? My God! What next? Wil Wheaton becomes a porno movie stud?

SM

[SixofNine]

Best I can do at the moment.

Brian

[MorWired]

My biggest problem with the show and one of the main reasons I don't watch it much, is the characterization of the crew. This crew was supposed to be much more like our present day astronauts, but for our first ship to go out and explore we send a crew which is confused, wimpy, lacking in confidence, troubled, hesitant, etc, etc, etc? Our rocket jockeys of today (and yesterday) are some of the most highly trained and confident folks going. Archer especially, is always second guessing himself, nobody seems especially trained well, the linguistics chick panics every time she has to do something, the whole thing is just dumb. A third rate show, I know they are in trouble when I start wishing DS9 was still playing. At least they had some interesting characters in the crew/station.

Good riddance.But wasn't that an intentional part of the premise? I stopped watching after the first season, so one would have hoped they would have resolved this, but as I remember it, they weren't ready to go into space yet, but were forced by some emergency to throw together a relatively untrained crew and learn on the fly, so to speak. ;) That's why the Vulcan baby-sitter.

[MorWired]

Some additional categories (I did this yesterday and the browser crashed and ate it, so let's see if I can remember it all).

Arch Villains
TOS: Klingons, Romulans
TNG: Q, Borg
DS9: Cardassians, The Dominion
V'Ger: Borg, Borg, Species 8472, Borg (Way bored with the Borg)
Enterprise: Klingons?

Wide-Eyed Innocents
TOS: Chekov, assorted young 'uns in a red tunic ;)
TNG: Wesley, Data
DS9: Little Cisco and Little Ferengi
V'Ger: Kes, Neelix -- in a way he was both wise and innocent, Kim (thanks to SixofNine :))
Enterprise: Interpreter Girl

Geek-Extraordinaire
TOS: Scotty, Spock
TNG: Geordi, Wesley, Miles, Data (it was a good era for geeks :))
DS9: Odo, Bashir, Miles
V'Ger: Kim, the holo-doc, Tuvok
Enterprise: the engineering guy

"Bad" Character Transformed
TOS: Everybody was good, good, good
TNG: Worf
DS9: Nerys, Quark
V'Ger: B'Elanna, Paris, 6 of 9
Enterprise: Don't remember the show well enough

Unrequited Love
TOS: Nurse Chapel for Spock, Yeoman Rand for Kirk
TNG: the Riker/Troi thing for years, Beverly/Picard
DS9: Odo for Nerys, Bashir for Dax (Interesting tidbit from Googling, the real people playing Nerys and Bashir are (were?) married.)
V'Ger: Janeway/Chakotay
Enterprise:The Captain and the Vulcan

Characters without a Cause
TOS: Sulu
TNG: Geordi
DS9: As I recall, everyone seemed pretty well utilized.
V'Ger: Kim
Enterprise: Don't remember

[SixofNine]

Cool categories! I would definitely add Harry Kim as a Wide-Eyed Innocent.

I've been playing with another category, too: the Character From Our Present or Past (Fiction or Non-Fiction). I'm thinking of Abe Lincoln's tour de force appearance on TOS, and two holodeck semi-regulars: Moriarty on TNG and Leonardo da Vinci on Voyager in his role as Janeway's favorite holodeck program. Don't know about DS9 or Enterprise.

My point is that they always went far enough back in time so that the TV audience knew the character. Of course, there was also the Rule of Three: whenever three historical characters are mentioned, two were from the TV audience's past or present and one of them was from the TV audience's future. So Kirk might say: "I have modeled myself after some of the great Horn Dogs of the past - Valentino, Hefner, Kryggl of Blepbrorp." :)

Brian

[Suchaknight]

Another category: Obnoxious, boring characters/themes

TOS: Harry Mudd, Tribbles
TNG: Wesley Crusher and Q
DS9: Capt. Sisko and his kid, goofy looking Ferengis trying to steal everything not nailed down
V: Neelix the insecure whiner, Q, and the Holo Dr. from Dweebville
E: ?

Most overused plot idea: Creating unbelieveable end-of-all-life-as-we-know-it threats, and then bailing everybody out of imminent destruction; both by manipulating time warps, singularities, temporal distortions, yadda yadda yadda.

Doesn't anyone else think Tasha Yar was uber-hot?

[amjezioro]

Doesn't anyone else think Tasha Yar was uber-hot?
I would have to agree...as it has been said- I'd hit it, if i had the equipment to hit it. when she was with the federation though- not when they brought her back as a Romulan..

[SixofNine]

Doesn't anyone else think Tasha Yar was uber-hot?

She wasn't my type for some reason I can't explain, but yeah, she was certainly attractive, and this list belongs to the people, not just me. :)

Brian

[Andy]

Most overused plot idea: Creating unbelieveable end-of-all-life-as-we-know-it threats, and then bailing everybody out of imminent destruction; both by manipulating time warps, singularities, temporal distortions, yadda yadda yadda.



That's what sorta pissed me off about the original series... there were several where they intentionally or not went back to "our time" to do something or other, (One I can remember is when they got caught stealing photos out of an Air Force office, and had a captured pilot, also the one with Teri Garr where they were trying to do something to a missile) I guess the Prime Directive did not apply to Earth's past, but when it came to ST being on the BIG screen, all of a sudden it was a "miracle" that they went back to San Fransisco and grabbed a couple of friggin whales. :doh:

[warlock56]

She wasn't my type for some reason I can't explain, but yeah, she was certainly attractive, and this list belongs to the people, not just me. images/smilies/smile.gif

Brian
Rewatch one episode of TNG during the 2nd season I think it is...I think it was where the Enterprise came across 2 different peoples and was trying to help them out, and they learn later they both hate each other...they have this "shocking" ability thing, one of them immobilizes Riker. Well anyway, the point is I think it was during this episode you can see Yar waving goodbye as the cargo doors close near the end of the episode. That was the last one she filmed that she was part of the main cast.

[MNeedham73]

Next for example was the acting of Avery Brooks, aka Benjamin Sisko in DS9. His acting slowly went from bad to worse as the show progressed.
My biggest problem with Avery Brooks was that I kept expecting him to drop into his character "Hawk" from the show Spencer for Hire lol.

[MorWired]

That's what sorta pissed me off about the original series... there were several where they intentionally or not went back to "our time" to do something or other, (One I can remember is when they got caught stealing photos out of an Air Force office, and had a captured pilot, also the one with Teri Garr where they were trying to do something to a missile) I guess the Prime Directive did not apply to Earth's past, but when it came to ST being on the BIG screen, all of a sudden it was a "miracle" that they went back to San Fransisco and grabbed a couple of friggin whales. :doh:They never "intentionally" went back in time (at least not as first contact), it was always some unexplained force that started it (a storm or magnetic field or whatever the cosmic hokum was that week) and then they had to interfere in a boatload of stuff in order not to interfere [like "City on the Edge of Forever," where if Joan Collins doesn't die the Nazis will win, so Captain Casanova has to let the love of his short attention span die, in order to preserve history and save the world]. I actually liked those eps. :)

[MorWired]

Cool categories! I would definitely add Harry Kim as a Wide-Eyed Innocent. :doh: How could I have forgotten Harry? Done. :doh:
.I've been playing with another category, too: the Character From Our Present or Past (Fiction or Non-Fiction). I'm thinking of Abe Lincoln's tour de force appearance on TOS, and two holodeck semi-regulars: Moriarty on TNG and Leonardo da Vinci on Voyager in his role as Janeway's favorite holodeck program. Don't know about DS9 or Enterprise.Lincoln on TOS -- one of the worst ... episodes ... EVER!! :)

I'm also not remembering any particular historical figure recurring on DS9, more like an era -- didn't Bashir and Miles used to play fighter pilot aces a lot?

[Andy]

They never "intentionally" went back in time


Umm.. you stand corrected.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/68770.html

Sent back in time to find out how Earth managed to survive without destroying itself, the U.S.S. Enterprise inadvertently beams aboard a space traveler, Gary Seven, along with his black cat, Isis.

With the other one I thought of, (Tomorrow is Yesterday) I always thought they went back intentionally, but it seems to have been accidental.
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/68702.html

[MorWired]

Umm.. you stand corrected.So I do. :)

I don't remember ever having the sense that they had the ability to travel in time at will though, they always figured out how to correct what went wrong or managed to find or duplicate the anomaly, but never to create it themselves. I'm thinking, since that ep was a pilot, that maybe they deviated somewhat from the known Universe of Trek, in order to accommodate this plot?

[SixofNine]

I think what they did in Assignment: Earth is use the gravitational slingshot technique that they discovered by accident in a previous episode. So in a way you're both right. :)

Brian

[Sierra Mike]

Rewatch one episode of TNG during the 2nd season I think it is...I think it was where the Enterprise came across 2 different peoples and was trying to help them out, and they learn later they both hate each other...they have this "shocking" ability thing, one of them immobilizes Riker. Well anyway, the point is I think it was during this episode you can see Yar waving goodbye as the cargo doors close near the end of the episode. That was the last one she filmed that she was part of the main cast.
No...she was in the one where she was killed by that Tar Monster thing. :)

Yeah, here (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68350.html) it is...

SM

[Suchaknight]

No...she was in the one where she was killed by that Tar Monster thing. :)

Yeah, here (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68350.html) it is...

SM
"Not part of the main cast." I thought she came back as a Klingon after the Tar thing killed her.

[MNeedham73]

"Not part of the main cast." I thought she came back as a Klingon after the Tar thing killed her.
Romulan.

Well...1/2 Romulan, I believe

[warlock56]

No...she was in the one where she was killed by that Tar Monster thing. images/smilies/smile.gif

Yeah, here (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68350.html) it is...

SM
No, that was the episode where she was killed, this is true, however Paramount aired the episodes differently, and the episode where she waved goodbye before the cargo door closed was aired after that Tar monster killed her.

[Advocat]

Oh my God. Mature adults debating Star Trek episodes; what happened to who and when... I think I've accidentally fallen into a black hole or a Sci Fi convention or something! :lol:

[ethics]

God, does this remind anyone of <a href="http://snltranscripts.jt.org/86/86hgetalife.phtml">this</a>?

[SixofNine]

Remember when the Simpsons hosted a few geeks in there house? All they did was sit at their PCs. At one point one of them said "Look at this - somebody is claiming that Picard is a better captain than Kirk!" :lol:

That's us. :thumbsup:

Brian

[Techie2000]

Umm, didn't they also do that in the movie where they had to go back in time to find the whales? Star Trek IV?

[SixofNine]

Romulan.

Well...1/2 Romulan, I believe

Now that we've fallen completely down this rabbit hole, here's that story (this is a copy-and-paste job, folks, no way I'm doing this from memory :) ):

A duplicate Tasha Yar in a parallel time-line re-entered this universe via a time vortex aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise, NCC-1701- C. Unknown to outsiders, Yar was taken as a consort by a Romulan general aboard the ships that attacked and defeated that Enterprise without leaving a trace of it, and she gave birth a year later to his daughter, Sela. In 2349, when Sela was 4, she foiled her own mother's escape attempt and Tasha was killed again.

Brian

[MorWired]

Oh my God. Mature adults debating Star Trek episodes; what happened to who and when... I think I've accidentally fallen into a black hole or a Sci Fi convention or something! :lol:"Mature"? :lol:

You'd prefer we discuss "Fear Factor," "Survivor," or the latest installment of "The Bachelor"? Yick. :augh:

[SixofNine]

Umm, didn't they also do that in the movie where they had to go back in time to find the whales? Star Trek IV?

Yes, but we were talking about whether they had the ability to deliberatley travel back in time during the original series.

Brian

[Techie2000]

Yes, but we were talking about whether they had the ability to deliberatley travel back in time during the original series.

BrianI thought the Original Series meant the cast and era, not the series itself...

[SixofNine]

I thought the Original Series meant the cast and era, not the series itself...It can, but for the purpose of this thread only I mentioned in the original post:

Also, this analysis pertains to TV series only, not movies.

That of course pertained only to the original topic (what major character types there are in the all of the TV series and which ones Enterprise lacked), but perhaps when my esteemed colleagues started discussing time travel in TOS they remembered that sentence from the post that started this thread.

(And please don't take this as a complaint that the topic is drifiting OT - I'm having a blast).

Brian

[MorWired]

I thought the Original Series meant the cast and era, not the series itself...Given that there's a 15-30-year gap between the series and the movies, many things were tweaked and are not necessarily consistent with the series. In the series they were at the forefront of exploration, doing [pardon the obvious :haha:] what no one had done before, in the movies they were venerable space guys, getting together for this caper and that. It's also quite possible, likely, even, that great technologial/scientific advances had been made from the days of the series to the movies.

[Stiofán]

You guys have forgotten Denise Crosby's (Tasha Yar) most famous acting job as far as I'm concerned, which was her 1979 Playboy spread, and yes she is Bing's granddaughter.


So SM knows a cast member from one of the shows. Anyone else? I'll contribute one, my second cousing is married to Rhodes Reason (http://www.spookytoms.com/Rhodes_Reason_Tribute.html) who played Flavius Maximus in an episode of TOS called "Bread and Circuses". He was best know for being the original "Daddy Warbucks" in "Annie" when it played on Broadway for three years in the 1980s, but he's done a lot of film and TV work.

[Sierra Mike]

No, that was the episode where she was killed, this is true, however Paramount aired the episodes differently, and the episode where she waved goodbye before the cargo door closed was aired after that Tar monster killed her.
I'm not sure how that's possible, but all right. I never dug TNG until around the 3rd season anyway.

SM

[MorWired]

So SM knows a cast member from one of the shows. Anyone else? I'll contribute one, my second cousing is married to Rhodes Reason (http://www.spookytoms.com/Rhodes_Reason_Tribute.html) who played Flavius Maximus in an episode of TOS called "Bread and Circuses". He was best know for being the original "Daddy Warbucks" in "Annie" when it played on Broadway for three years in the 1980s, but he's done a lot of film and TV work.Not that I "know" but a brush with greatness. :)

Back before the first movie was released, my boyfriend's boss had us over for dinner along with his old college friend -- Dorothy Fontana! :notworthy

She and a friend who was also part of the production dished all about the film, and bitched about the unbelievably ookie uniforms, and it was AMAZING! I did my teenaged very best not to embarrass myself, and her, and managed not to gush too much, but it was unbelievably awesome and exciting.

<center>http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/gruppe/3.gif</center>

[ravital]

Come on, my pal Michelle Forbes was awesome as Ro Laren. Too bad she hated the show.

SM Yep, she gets my vote as well.


If anyone here misses that joke, we should just ban them. They belong over at the Watercooler at DSLR ;)
You bet! And don't stop there, either, ban anyone who pronounces either of the "s" in the name!

[MNeedham73]

You guys have forgotten Denise Crosby's (Tasha Yar) most famous acting job as far as I'm concerned, which was her 1979 Playboy spread, and yes she is Bing's granddaughter.
Nah, she was at her sexiest in Pet Sematary.

Come on, who wouldn't want to hit this? ;)

http://www.lyns.aaahosting.net/movies/petimages/petsem55.jpg

[warlock56]

God, does this remind anyone of this (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/86/86hgetalife.phtml)?
That reminds me, anyone know of a site that has the video clip of that skit?? I used to have it on an old OLD CD backup I made LONG ago but can't find it. Google is only turning up transcripts.

[Suchaknight]

So SM knows a cast member from one of the shows. Anyone else?
Johnny Loprieno is a friend of mine. He was in the Voyager two-part episode about the time ship that was trying to recreate the correct sequence of historical events which would restore their civilization. Chakotay ended up on the time ship and convinced the character played by Johnny (who was the 2nd in command) to get rid of his maniacal commander who was hell bent on spending the rest of eternity trying to find the perfect solution. Or something like that. He also played in a couple of soaps. Cord, anyone?

[ethics]

That reminds me, anyone know of a site that has the video clip of that skit?? I used to have it on an old OLD CD backup I made LONG ago but can't find it. Google is only turning up transcripts.


If someone finds it, would love to see it as well. I will look underground for this tonight. ;)

[ethics]

Oh goodness, something is happening that one would expect only from Trekkies. Via /.:

What started of as a suggestion to pay for season 5 of Enterprise has actully snowballed into a project that no one has ever attempted before, that of getting fans to pay for the production costs of a tv series. It has brought on board a raft of people including lawyers. I wonder if the quoted $50 to $80 million is reachable." I gotta say that Enterprise has been better this season, but I feel like it's still only mediocre. Battlestar Galactica might be the best SciFi airing right now. And I woulda chipped in for more Firefly in a heartbeat.

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3952274&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1&vc=1