ShinyTop
12-21-2004, 10:30 AM
In this story (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/21abuse.html?ei=5006&en=5c03bc4bced03ea3&ex=1104210000&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=) we read where FBI investigations are revealing that abuse of detainees in Gitmo is not as isolated as this writer would have liked to believe.
In another thread Old Dog has asked for our government to reveal its plan and has asked whether or not we can win. I honestly don't know. I know there were many mistakes made early on that are having tough consequences for our cause today. Those mistakes, in my eyes, are chiefly not being ready for the quick win and in not securing the borders early on. Not doing so was at least partially political in order to keep the headcount down. I wonder how many deaths could have been avoided by proper manning levels in March or April of last year.
But the cited article raises a bigger question to me. Most of us have often stated that our goal was to spread the American ideals through democracy and through pushing the American system of justice to a country ruled by what we consider barbaric practices.
And then we read about our conduct at Gitmo and prisons in Iraq. I posted on this board I thought it an anomaly and not sanctioned. I defended our troops and berated leadership that failed to have command emphasis on American values. It would appear I was wrong.
With these facts becoming public how will we continue to claim the high ground? When we practice ill disguised torture and imprison people for up to 3 years without trial how do we look the world in the eyes and claim superiority for American justice?
And more importantly is it too late to right these wrongs? If we cannot convince the world we are sincere in correcting our errors and in punishing those who betrayed our American values we cannot win ... and sadly it may well be too late.
I would hold out some hope that thinking people of the world would see our system work in that the wrongs are exposed and that the perpetrators are strongly punished. But sadly I do not see us taking proper action. Sadly I see even if we win with a democratic government installed and running for years in Iraq it will be backed by a country without honor and without justice, my country. You do not win a just war by learning and following barbaric practices, you win by demonstrating the values you hold up to the light.
And make no mistake, this is not a black eye for America because these actions were revealed. It is a black eye for America because these actions occurred.
In another thread Old Dog has asked for our government to reveal its plan and has asked whether or not we can win. I honestly don't know. I know there were many mistakes made early on that are having tough consequences for our cause today. Those mistakes, in my eyes, are chiefly not being ready for the quick win and in not securing the borders early on. Not doing so was at least partially political in order to keep the headcount down. I wonder how many deaths could have been avoided by proper manning levels in March or April of last year.
But the cited article raises a bigger question to me. Most of us have often stated that our goal was to spread the American ideals through democracy and through pushing the American system of justice to a country ruled by what we consider barbaric practices.
And then we read about our conduct at Gitmo and prisons in Iraq. I posted on this board I thought it an anomaly and not sanctioned. I defended our troops and berated leadership that failed to have command emphasis on American values. It would appear I was wrong.
With these facts becoming public how will we continue to claim the high ground? When we practice ill disguised torture and imprison people for up to 3 years without trial how do we look the world in the eyes and claim superiority for American justice?
And more importantly is it too late to right these wrongs? If we cannot convince the world we are sincere in correcting our errors and in punishing those who betrayed our American values we cannot win ... and sadly it may well be too late.
I would hold out some hope that thinking people of the world would see our system work in that the wrongs are exposed and that the perpetrators are strongly punished. But sadly I do not see us taking proper action. Sadly I see even if we win with a democratic government installed and running for years in Iraq it will be backed by a country without honor and without justice, my country. You do not win a just war by learning and following barbaric practices, you win by demonstrating the values you hold up to the light.
And make no mistake, this is not a black eye for America because these actions were revealed. It is a black eye for America because these actions occurred.