View Full Version : Nobel Prize Winner Claims HIV Began In Lab
ethics
10-11-2004, 08:34 PM
The Nobel Prize is being cheapened once again. And it's great to see the tin foilers are once again will bend any science to bash US. Oh look, even Iraq war was inserted in to a rant. :)
<blockquote>Wangari Maathai, the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize, Saturday caused a storm of controversy with claims that HIV/AIDS is a deliberately created biological agent.
"Some say that AIDS came from the monkeys, and I doubt that because we have been living with monkeys from time immemorial, others say it was a curse from God, but I say it cannot be that," Maathai said.
Maathai is Kenya's deputy environment and natural resources minister and a world renowned ecologist told reporters in Nairobi that HIV was designed to cause genocide.
"Us black people are dying more than any other people in this planet," she said.
"It's true that there are some people who create agents to wipe out other people. If there were no such people, we could have not have invaded Iraq," she said.
"We invaded Iraq because we believed that Saddam Hussein had made, or was in the process of creating agents of biological warfare," she added.
"In fact [AIDS] is created by a scientist for biological warfare," she added.
</blockquote>
Read the rest here.
(http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/101004aidsOrigin.htm)
Of course, some people (http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/oct148.html) are stating she never deserved the Nobel Prize, that the decision for her award was political.
<blockquote>About a year ago I wrote an article praising the awarding of the nobel peace prize to Shirin Ebadi, an Iranian human rights activist. This years winner shows that the nobel prize is back to its old political ways.
As deserving as Ebadi was, this years winner, Wangari Maathai is undeserving. Like most recipients of the prize they are selected for the radical political views and not for any real work. Maathai is an ecologist from Kenya. Now according to the newspapers all they will tell you is that she wants to stop deforestation in Africa. All well and good. What they don't tell you is that this woman is a conspiracy theory crackpot. Believing that AIDS was cooked up in a laboratory in the west to eliminate black people.Well it really shouldn't suprise me. The Nobel prize goes to anyone in vogue with leftist movements. Maybe next year someone who actually deserves it will get it. </blockquote>
Steve
10-11-2004, 08:37 PM
Eh, George Soros is a billionaire, and he's a crackpot. Plenty of successful people hold moronic notions.....
ethics
10-11-2004, 08:39 PM
That's not good enough for me. If we keep dismissing these people are crackpots, why is the Nobel Committee not being questioned and pressured?
Steve
10-11-2004, 08:47 PM
With the caveat that I'm not qualified to judge the quality of her work or its eligibility for the Nobel, isn't is possible that it's of such high caliber that stands independent of her nutcase opinions? I've known (and know) plenty of competent, qualified people who are excellent in their chosen profession with whom I can't hold a conversation with a straight face simply because some of their political views are completely loony, or they subscribe wholesale to various CT's, or they hold certain truths to be self-evident that have been disproven on Snopes.com for the last 6 years....yet there they are, success in their careers.
Stiofán
10-11-2004, 08:48 PM
why is the Nobel Committee not being questioned and pressured?
Because they are crackpots as well?
joseftu
10-11-2004, 08:52 PM
Two words.
Linus Pauling.
ethics
10-11-2004, 08:56 PM
What am I missing? I believe he received a Nobel in the sixties?
joseftu
10-11-2004, 09:04 PM
He got two Nobel prizes (the only person to do that all on his own, I think), both well-deserved, and he was also an utter and complete crackpot. It's a long tradition.
ethics
10-11-2004, 09:05 PM
It's a long tradition.
Sad no?
We need another prize that will select people based on their merit in their field without the bs politics.
Steve
10-11-2004, 09:08 PM
Wouldn't you say though, Leon, that practically all cutting-edge science is performed by people who are at least slightly loopy, ones that see the world differently, that see a world with something new and different in it and work to bring that reality about?
ethics
10-11-2004, 09:12 PM
Wouldn't you say though, Leon, that practically all cutting-edge science is performed by people who are at least slightly loopy, ones that see the world differently, that see a world with something new and different in it and work to bring that reality about?
Perhaps, but the woman cited in the lead post is ignorant, not loopy.
joseftu
10-11-2004, 09:12 PM
We know they've made plenty of pretty horrendous mistakes (I don't think I have to mention names, do I? (cough-Arafat-cough). In Pauling's case, I think he was definitely entitled to the first one, not too sure about the second--but he really, seriously, lost it in his later years. I'm reminded of Arthur Conan Doyle (not that this has anything to do with the Nobel, but he's another example of someone who was really stellar in one field, and then took an extreme swing toward battiness).
But they're really entitled to give whatever they want, to whomever they want--we're just also entitled to give whatever respect and credibility (or lack thereof) to the prize and its winner that we want!
Personally, I'm mostly irked that they keep passing me over, year after year. I'm sure that's what's bothering you, too? Right? The chorus is deafening--"Hey, Nobel Committee---What about joseftu????" ;)
Steve
10-11-2004, 09:13 PM
Oh, yes, no doubt about that! For her to exhibit a fundamental lack of understanding of the process by which viruses can jump species is a major problem with her receiving the award.
ethics
10-11-2004, 09:13 PM
Personally, I'm mostly irked that they keep passing me over, year after year. I'm sure that's what's bothering you, too? Right? The chorus is deafening--"Hey, Nobel Committee---What about joseftu????" ;)
Hehe, actually, I was being selfish and thinking only of me. :P
ShinyTop
10-11-2004, 09:16 PM
Prizes for science should be based on science regardless of crackpot political beliefs.
The Peace Prize is a political prize based on the current PC viewpoint that is fashionable with the Nobel committee. People with crackpot political viewpoints should not be awarded the peace prize. It has been so cheapened over the years that it is a joke and this winner only confirms that. Crackpot ideas appear to be a requirement.
ravital
10-11-2004, 09:47 PM
Personally, I'm mostly irked that they keep passing me over, year after year.
Oh come on, you should take that as a compliment. :cool:
efuseakay
10-11-2004, 10:15 PM
First Arafat, and now this guy... ack...
http://sctest.cse.ucsc.edu/kenb/gif/bill_the_cat.gif
Pyrion
10-12-2004, 12:57 AM
Eh, George Soros is a billionaire, and he's a crackpot. Plenty of successful people hold moronic notions.....
Let's not forget Jimmy Carter. ;)
Let's not forget Jimmy Carter. ;)
For sure, Carter seems to channeling Ramsey Clark more and more in his old age.
Does this woman provide any sort of proof that AIDS was a lab creation to wipe out "black people", or is she simply talking because someone stuck a mic in her face?
mikeky
10-13-2004, 03:35 PM
He got two Nobel prizes (the only person to do that all on his own, I think), both well-deserved, and he was also an utter and complete crackpot. It's a long tradition.
Sorry, can't let this pass: there's no comparison between Maathai and Pauling, even in Pauling's later years. While he had some controversial views on things like Vitamin C, he seemed to arrive at them based on studies and some evidence, as opposed to Maathai's AIDS logic.
joseftu
10-13-2004, 04:24 PM
Mike, the Vitamin C stuff (etc.) was really way-out. Although I'm no scientist myself, I don't know of any reputable scientist who gave that any credence at all. It just wasn't supportable.
But I admit that Maathi is quite a bit farther out, if there's a scale for these things.
Coriolis
10-14-2004, 09:04 AM
Does this woman provide any sort of proof that AIDS was a lab creation to wipe out "black people", or is she simply talking because someone stuck a mic in her face?
Sadly, there's no shortage of AIDS CT's out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_conspiracy_theories
A research article in the medical journal Preventive Medicine, Volume 28, Issue 5 , May 1999, Pages 451-457, was the first study to determine the extent of these beliefs among Blacks in the US. The abstract is below:
<blockquote> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>Prev Med. 1999 May;28(5):451-7.</TD><TD align=right>Related Articles, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=10329334)<SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var PopUpMenu2_LocalConfig_jsmenu3Config = [ ["ShowCloseIcon","yes"], ["Help","window.open('/entrez/query/static/popup.html','Links_Help','resizable=no,scrollbars=yes,toolba r=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,copyhis tory=no,alwaysRaised=no,depend=no,width=400,height=500');"], ["TitleText"," Links "]]//--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var Menu10329334 = [ ["UseLocalConfig","jsmenu3Config","",""], ["Books","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=10329334&dopt=Books'","",""], ["LinkOut","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=10329334&dopt=ExternalLink'","",""]]//--></SCRIPT> Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu10329334);) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Do blacks believe that HIV/AIDS is a government conspiracy against them?
Klonoff EA, Landrine H.
Behavioral Health Institute, California State University, 5500 University Parkway, San Bernardino, California 92407, USA.
BACKGROUND: We present the first study to explore the possibility that blacks believe that the human immunodeficiency virus was developed by the federal government in order to exterminate the black population. METHODS: Five hundred twenty black adults sampled door to door in 10 randomly selected census tracts completed a written survey in exchange for $10. They indicated their degree of agreement with the statement, "HIV/AIDS is a man-made virus that the federal government made to kill and wipe out black people." RESULTS: Twenty-seven percent of blacks held AIDS-conspiracy views and an additional 23% were undecided. Endorsing AIDS-conspiracy beliefs was not related to blacks' age or income but was related to higher levels of education. Blacks who agreed that AIDS is a conspiracy against them tended to be culturally traditional, college-educated men who had experienced considerable racial discrimination. CONCLUSIONS: The prevalence and health-related implications of blacks' AIDS-conspiracy beliefs must be fully investigated, and such beliefs must be addressed in culturally tailored, gender-specific AIDS prevention programs for blacks. Copyright 1999 American Health Foundation and Academic Press.
PMID: 10329334 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] </blockquote>
While there are plenty sources for the reason these beliefs may exist, it is unfortunate that one of the biggest influences is actually true.
<blockquote> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>Am J Public Health. 1991 Nov;81(11):1498-505.</TD><TD align=right>Related Articles, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=1951814)<SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var PopUpMenu2_LocalConfig_jsmenu3Config = [ ["ShowCloseIcon","yes"], ["Help","window.open('/entrez/query/static/popup.html','Links_Help','resizable=no,scrollbars=yes,toolba r=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,copyhis tory=no,alwaysRaised=no,depend=no,width=400,height=500');"], ["TitleText"," Links "]]//--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var Menu1951814 = [ ["UseLocalConfig","jsmenu3Config","",""], ["Cited in PMC","window.top.location='http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/tocrender.fcgi?action=cited&tool=pubmed&pubmedid=1951814'","",""], ["Books","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=1951814&dopt=Books'","",""], ["LinkOut","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=1951814&dopt=ExternalLink'","",""]]//--></SCRIPT> Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu1951814);) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study, 1932 to 1972: implications for HIV education and AIDS risk education programs in the black community.
Thomas SB, Quinn SC.
Department of Health Education, University of Maryland, College Park 20742.
The Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the Negro male is the longest nontherapeutic experiment on human beings in medical history. The strategies used to recruit and retain participants were quite similar to those being advocated for HIV/AIDS prevention programs today. Almost 60 years after the study began, there remains a trail of distrust and suspicion that hampers HIV education efforts in Black communities. The AIDS epidemic has exposed the Tuskegee study as a historical marker for the legitimate discontent of Blacks with the public health system. The belief that AIDS is a form of genocide is rooted in a social context in which Black Americans, faced with persistent inequality, believe in conspiracy theories about Whites against Blacks. These theories range from the belief that the government promotes drug abuse in Black communities to the belief that HIV is a manmade weapon of racial warfare. An open and honest discussion of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study can facilitate the process of rebuilding trust between the Black community and public health authorities. This dialogue can contribute to the development of HIV education programs that are scientifically sound, culturally sensitive, and ethnically acceptable.
PMID: 1951814 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] </blockquote>
Even more sad, particularly in light of Maathai's remarks, is that these beliefs no doubt do more harm than good in preventing and treating AIDS. Take a look at the following study:
<blockquote> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>J Natl Med Assoc. 2003 Nov;95(11):1057-65.</TD><TD align=right>Related Articles, (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=14651372)<SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var PopUpMenu2_LocalConfig_jsmenu3Config = [ ["ShowCloseIcon","yes"], ["Help","window.open('/entrez/query/static/popup.html','Links_Help','resizable=no,scrollbars=yes,toolba r=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,copyhis tory=no,alwaysRaised=no,depend=no,width=400,height=500');"], ["TitleText"," Links "]]//--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!--var Menu14651372 = [ ["UseLocalConfig","jsmenu3Config","",""], ["Books","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=14651372&dopt=Books'","",""], ["LinkOut","window.top.location='http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=14651372&dopt=ExternalLink'","",""]]//--></SCRIPT> Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu14651372);) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Exploring the relationship of conspiracy beliefs about HIV/AIDS to sexual behaviors and attitudes among African-American adults.
Bogart LM, Bird ST.
Department of Psychology, Kent State University, Ohio, USA.
Conspiracy beliefs about HIV/AIDS have been endorsed by significant percentages of African Americans in prior research. However, almost no research has investigated the relationship of such beliefs to behaviors and attitudes relevant to HIV risk. In the present exploratory study, 71 African-American adults (aged 18-45; 61% female) in the United States participated in a national, cross-sectional telephone survey examining the relationship of HIV/AIDS conspiracy beliefs to sexual attitudes and behaviors. Results indicated significant associations between endorsement of a general HIV/AIDS government conspiracy and negative beliefs regarding condoms and greater numbers of sexual partners. Endorsement of HIV/AIDS treatment conspiracies was related to positive attitudes about condoms and greater condom use intentions. Findings suggest that conspiracy beliefs have implications for HIV prevention in African-American communities.
PMID: 14651372 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] </blockquote>
The authors found that endorsement of government-related conspiracy beliefs (i.e., the conspiracy Maathai and others are touting) is correlated with negative attitudes towards condom use, and increased numbers of sexual partners. Interestingly, the opposite is true about treatment-related conspiracies.
Dr Bogart (who now works for the RAND Corp) has a paper coming out in JAIDS in January that is a larger version of the above study, including 500 African-Americans -- they found, as they did previously, that endorsement of government-related conspiracy beliefs has a profound negative impact on condom use (but only among men).
The message to Wangari Maathai should be clear -- despite her apparently sincere beliefs, her statements endorsing this theory WILL have a negative affect on the management of AIDS. :(
<DD> </DD>