American schools targeted for terror?

[Andy]

Well this just hits way too close to home.....

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/schools_threat_041007-1.html

School Plans, Security Information Gathered by Suspected Iraq Insurgent Focus Concern on Schools in Six States

A man described as an Iraqi insurgent involved in anti-coalition activities had downloaded school floor plans and safety and security information about elementary and high schools in the six states

One of these states, and one of those towns in that state, just happen to be the one my wife works for.
She came home last week telling me tales of "armed officers" in the school, and extreme lockdown conditions that propped up practically over night.. my first reaction was due to the ongoing construction.

Apparently, this info has been known since July, and it takes a Russian school massacre to actually prompt reaction here in the states.

I tell her to remember just one thing though... "Her" candidate swears Iraq has no ties to terrorism. :rolleyes:

[warlock56]

You want my brutally honest opinion? I am surprised it has not already begun. Personally I'm also surprised we haven't seen attacks at nightclubs/bars or daycares.

[Andy]

I think the one and only thing that is keeping that scenario from happening is the terrorists fear of the "John Wayne" syndrome.
They never know which one of us crazy American-cowboy types are packin'.

[Frodo Lives]

They are waiting to see if Kerry wins in November. If he wins, they know he will not have the capability to respond with force in response to an attack, unlike Bush.

[Steve]

I don't think they care or worry too much about dying during the attempt, Andy :(

[joseftu]

I think the one and only thing that is keeping that scenario from happening is the terrorists fear of the "John Wayne" syndrome.
They never know which one of us crazy American-cowboy types are packin'.Um, Andy? do you really think there are more people with guns in America than in Iraq?

Or that someone who is willing to blow himself up would be bothered by an American-cowboy type who might have a pistol in his pocket?

Besides, we've seen pretty clearly (and very sadly) that we Americans can create plenty of school shootings and day care center bombings all on our lonesome, without any help from foreign terrorists.:(

[cdw]

An Iraq insurgent of what nationality? Who is the guy that had this stuff?

[SixofNine]

Security at most public schools is certainly nowhere near the level it would have to be to stop a suicide bomber, or even some terrorist who wants to spray a few bullets into a crowded cafeteria. They certainly woudn't need a school's architectural drawings to go about their business.

What's security like at your kids' elementary schools? I work close enough to home that I can drive to my first-grade son's school once a week and eat lunch with him. I waltz through the front door, sign a visitors' log at the front desk, fill out my own visitor's badge, put it on, and walk to the cafeteria. Exit doors from the cafeteria conveniently open into the parking lot, so somebody with bad intentions could wreak havoc and be gone in a matter of seconds.

Of course, the security required to make a school safe from someone willing to die undertaking terrorism would render it a prison. Do we lock down all of our schools or do we try to avoid a draconian security environment that would make learning much more difficult? I don't think it's that easy a decision.

When I saw the title of the thread I immediately thought not of schools in the U.S., but of the schools overseas attended by dependents of embassy employees. In many countries these schools are elite, privately-run institutions that teach in English, and they are typically nicknamed "the American school."

All of the grade and high school age U.S. embassy dependents attend them, as do local children of families well off enough to pay the tuition. I once met a Brazilian who worked at the U.S. embassy in Brasilia who told me that she did mental arithmetic in English because she had attended the American school.

I don't know what the security is like at these schools today, but a scumbag terrorist looking to hurt innocent American kids doesn't have to travel to the U.S. to do so.

Brian

[joseftu]

What's security like at your kids' elementary schools? I work close enough to home that I can drive to my first-grade son's school once a week and eat lunch with him. I waltz through the front door, sign a visitors' log at the front desk, fill out my own visitor's badge, put it on, and walk to the cafeteria. Exit doors from the cafeteria conveniently open into the parking lot, so somebody with bad intentions could wreak havoc and be gone in a matter of seconds.At my daughter's school, there's no waltzing. Officer Anderson is always at her desk at the door, and she's extremely alert. Nobody walks in without showing picture ID, having it checked, and then having Officer Anderson fill out the visitor's badge, which must be turned in to her on departure, and the logbook. Visitors have to state exactly where they're going, and why, and the reason had better be legitimate, or you're going nowhere. This applies even to me, even though my daughter has been at the school for four years, and as one of the very few white parents in the school, I'm certainly recognizable. But I still show photo ID, and I still need a pass. No doors to the outside are open to public entry. Of course there's no parking lot! It's Brooklyn!

Now, I should say that Officer Anderson, although she's tough and strict, and brave, and all the kids love her, is a school safety officer. She's not a police officer. She's trained and uniformed, but certainly not armed. A terrorist (God forbid) would make short work of her.

But the school is certainly not an "easy" target. Very few NYC schools are, I think.

But as I said above, we've had plenty of evidence that the major threat to our kids in American schools is not terrorists, but other kids. Locking down the schools to outsiders won't help with that at all. But that's really a separate issue.

[Biker]

Two words.. Soft target. School's, hospitals, malls, etc. are very easy targets. I haven't seen a school yet that has implemented enough measures to prevent an inside attack, and we're just too open of a society to prevent a bomber from parking a large truck next to the building.

I think there's one thing that is preventing terrorists from hitting soft targets here, and that's the resulting outrage and call to immediately glass over the entire Middle East if it were to happen.

[jimeez]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/08/schools.iraq/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/08/schools.iraq/index.html)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military in Iraq has discovered two computer disks containing photographs, layouts and other material pertaining to American schools in six states, U.S. government officials said.

I don't suppose they were doing research for their onw school construction? No link to Al Qaeda?

[RRedline]

They are waiting to see if Kerry wins in November. If he wins, they know he will not have the capability to respond with force in response to an attack, unlike Bush.If terrorists start killing our children, I can guarantee you that, no matter who is the President (yes, even *GASP* John Kerry), there is going to be Hell to pay. The American public will demand swift, immediate justice.

I would like to echo that I, too, and surprised that something like this hasn't happened yet. I just hope they aren't waiting for something really big and devastating.

[Steve]

Threads merged

[Steve]

It already did happen in Russia.

[archidante]

I think the one and only thing that is keeping that scenario from happening is the terrorists fear of the "John Wayne" syndrome.
They never know which one of us crazy American-cowboy types are packin'.
Yeah. All Americans should dip their bullets in porkfat. Every school I taught at except one had gunfire outide the building on a regular basis. Once, there was a police car with it's windows shot out sitting in front of the building when I arrived for work. Once I was teaching a unit on the Reniassance and I was interuppted by the sound of automatic weaponsfire. The kids went wild hooting and jumping and and down throughout the building. In fact, later that year those same kids were pelting bricks at a row of sherif's cars parked to blockade a street during a riot.
You can bet yer bottom Kerry button there won't be attacks on THOSE schools. My students would jump the terroists and take their stuff. "Hey man, gimmie dat, yeaugh! Mutha Camel kissah!" "Dats' goodie fo' yoo, sucka!"

[ethics]

Yah, that outrage would last about 3 weeks, like it did with 9.11.01. Pending on who is affected by the shooting, Americans will relay back to being anti-war, terrorists are our friends, Israel is the bad guy and so are we for helping them, mentality.

I may have bought that 10 years ago, knowing the pansy anti-Americans that live here, I don't, not any more.

[warlock56]

Yah, that outrage would last about 3 weeks, like it did with 9.11.01. Pending on who is affected by the shooting, Americans will relay back to being anti-war, terrorists are our friends, Israel is the bad guy and so are we for helping them, mentality.

I may have bought that 10 years ago, knowing the pansy anti-Americans that live here, I don't, not any more.
You are absolutely right about that. The patriotism and general friendliness everywhere lasted only a few weeks, then it was back to road raging traffic conditions, screw Bush, and gotta have the next big item and put it on a credit card that I can't afford to begin with mentality.

[jimeez]

Yah, that outrage would last about 3 weeks, like it did with 9.11.01. Pending on who is affected by the shooting, Americans will relay back to being anti-war, terrorists are our friends, Israel is the bad guy and so are we for helping them, mentality.

I don't know about that, Leon. I know plenty of people that are still very outraged about 9/11.....myself included. I lost two friends that day. I think the media gives us a false perception of a non-caring attitude. I think plenty of people are still very angry......but our attention has been diverted and misdirected. (another topic for another thread perhaps) but this whole Iraq mess is partially to blame for that false perception. We're (the media) so focused on Iraq, we've forgotten about the actual enemy/target......terrorists.

[ethics]

Perhaps you are right, but I live in NYC and I personally know people who have stated, "man, who cares" when 9.11.01 is brought up.

[jimeez]

....but I live in NYC and I personally know people who have stated, "man, who cares" when 9.11.01 is brought up.

That's when you pull out your white glove and smack 'em squarely across the jaw! :thumbsup:

[joseftu]

Perhaps you are right, but I live in NYC and I personally know people who have stated, "man, who cares" when 9.11.01 is brought up.:eek:
Wow! Really? Who are these people? What's wrong with them?

I live in NYC, too, and I've never met anyone who said anything even vaguely resembling that. Everyone I know, everyone I've talked to, is still hurt, outraged, traumatized, by that event. I've seen (more than once) large, powerful, men, dressed in full "gangsta" fashion, tough as nails from the city's harshest neighborhoods, become choked up and tearful when recalling where they were and what they saw and heard on that day. I've seen the same response from Marxist-Leninist professors, too.

[ethics]

Hehe, yah.

Dunno, man, I've worked for Cantor in the early nineties and like yourself had more than a few friends perish. I doubt I will ever forget. That's not to say I want war, and war is the answer all the time, no.

But like Warlock mentioned, it's in our culture, the thread of our society to try to move on and forget.

[mikeky]

I think it's entirely possible schools and other similar targets could be used given the shock value that these would have, but not sure that this specific case was involved in targeting. From the CNN article:

<blockquote>The Department of Homeland Security official said the material was associated with a person in Iraq, and it could not be established that this person had any ties to terrorism. He did have a connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq, the official said.</blockquote>

Could have been someone just doing research.

[ethics]

I hate to say this, Joe, but mostly immigrants, although American citizens.

[Misu]

Most schools in Florida are outdoor schools, meaning that they are made up of a series of smaller buildings linked to each other via covered sidewalks. So one building might contain a few bathrooms and 8 classrooms. The administration building is usually the first building up in the front. When you move on to Middle and High schools, then the buildings are one giant building, with most kids under one roof, but even these schools have a large percentage of kids outside the main building in portable classrooms, which are nothing more than empty trailers fitted as classrooms. Every single school in florida, even the brand new ones just waiting for next year's classes to begin, have portables outside.

It is extremely easy to walk into ANY school, whether it be a high school or an elementary school. And there have been times that pedophiles have entered school grounds and sat in bathrooms to wait for children to walk in. 2 years ago, a little girl was molested in my sister's school in the bathroom. When I was in middle school, a girl in a grade higher up than me was raped in the girl's bathroom in the locker rooms, which were in a seperate building that in order to get to it, you had to walk outside. The locker room doors were unlocked, so anyone could slip into the locker room while classes were in session and wait for a girl to walk in.

No, our schools are definately not safe, but I think our kids are more at risk of being raped while at school than being blown up by foreign terrorists.

[Fiona]

two towns in California:(

WHICH!????

[joseftu]

I hate to say this, Joe, but mostly immigrants, although American citizens.Where's our icon for sad, discouraged, head-shaking?
:(

[Fiona]

I hate to say this, Joe, but mostly immigrants, although American citizens.I can vouch for that. I know many also... and joe there just isn't a good smiley for that :(

[Techie2000]

Where's our icon for sad, discouraged, head-shaking?
:(...

[joseftu]

Yep, that's the one!

[Stiofán]

This story has been out there for a day or two. It's about time we start hearing the usual "Bush must be behind in the polls, they're releasing another terrorist threat alert..."



:rolleyes:

[cdw]

I think it's entirely possible schools and other similar targets could be used given the shock value that these would have, but not sure that this specific case was involved in targeting. From the CNN article:

<blockquote>The Department of Homeland Security official said the material was associated with a person in Iraq, and it could not be established that this person had any ties to terrorism. He did have a connection to civic groups doing planning for schools in Iraq, the official said.</blockquote>

Could have been someone just doing research.

Sounds pretty plausible to me. :)

I sure hope no one does anything so stupid as bombing a school or doing a hostage thing with kids in this country. We will see chaos, IMO. There will be no reasoning with a large portion of the population.

[LissaKay]

I dunno ....

Surely someone in San Diego would remember an Iraqi person coming around asking for this material, and perhaps assisting with research ... if that's what this person was doing.

If the Iraqi did not consult with anyone in San Diego and no one gave them the materials ... doesn't that make it a bit suspect?

I mean, if (generalized) you were from a country that was at war with the US, and you had a need to do research on something as sensitive as school system security measures for use in school systems back home, wouldn't you make sure that it was very, very obvious that everything was on the up and up and appropriate authorities were aware of your actions???

[cdw]

I guess it depends on which report you read. The first article linked said iraqi insurgent. The CNN article clearly states there is no link to terrorism and that the person was part of a civic group planning schools in Iraq.
Authorities said the recovered information, publicly available through the Internet and other sourcesThe material included exit strategies, school codes of conduct, and information on creating a learning environment,
No one had to give them the material. And, I really don't see why a terrorist would be interested in creating a learning environment. I really think it's being blown out of proportion. I could be wrong and as they said, they are going with an abundance of caution, which is the correct thing to do.

[joseftu]

No one had to give them the material. And, I really don't see why a terrorist would be interested in creating a learning environment. I really think it's being blown out of proportion. I could be wrong and as they said, they are going with an abundance of caution, which is the correct thing to do.:thumbsup: :clap:

[Andy]

:(

WHICH!????

In addition to Fort Myers, Fla., the other districts included on the disk are San Diego, and La Puente, Calif., in the Los Angeles area; Birch Run, Mich.; Salem, Ore.; Jones County, Ga.; Franklinville and Rumson, both in N.J.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134820,00.html

Wife called me today after school, and said her school was mobbed with reporter vans and other journalistic ilk. (She can be seen as the one flipping off the CBS cameras, if they air it. :thumbsup: )

Seems like if anyone wanted to do something.. disguised as a news van would have been a perfect opportunity, since these yahoos were apparently running amok, unchecked, harrassing students and faculty with stupid questions outside the building when the last bell rang. :crazy:

[joseftu]

False alarm, as it turns out.
It's hard not to think Stiofan's cynicism was actually quite accurate!

[archidante]

Most schools in Florida are outdoor schools, meaning that they are made up of a series of smaller buildings linked to each other via covered sidewalks. So one building might contain a few bathrooms and 8 classrooms. The administration building is usually the first building up in the front. When you move on to Middle and High schools, then the buildings are one giant building, with most kids under one roof, but even these schools have a large percentage of kids outside the main building in portable classrooms, which are nothing more than empty trailers fitted as classrooms. Every single school in florida, even the brand new ones just waiting for next year's classes to begin, have portables outside.

It is extremely easy to walk into ANY school, whether it be a high school or an elementary school. And there have been times that pedophiles have entered school grounds and sat in bathrooms to wait for children to walk in. 2 years ago, a little girl was molested in my sister's school in the bathroom. When I was in middle school, a girl in a grade higher up than me was raped in the girl's bathroom in the locker rooms, which were in a seperate building that in order to get to it, you had to walk outside. The locker room doors were unlocked, so anyone could slip into the locker room while classes were in session and wait for a girl to walk in.

No, our schools are definately not safe, but I think our kids are more at risk of being raped while at school than being blown up by foreign terrorists. Or killed by a stray bullet. Or another student. And anyone that want's to call me a reactionary nut job should drop six or seven years of their life trying make a difference in those schools. Be there to encourage those kids whose mothers are dying in prison, or teach a seven year old to read and then go to her funeral. A traffic cop has more authority than a teacher in todays world.

[LissaKay]

False alarm, as it turns out.
It's hard not to think Stiofan's cynicism was actually quite accurate!


False alarm or not, it should prompt a closer look at school security and remedies that should be taken.

One of the conclusions of the 9/11 Commission is that we missed certain clues because of a lack of imagination. Here's a clue ... let's use our imagination, as scary as it might be, and plug the security holes.

[Biker]

Here's a clue ... let's use our imagination, as scary as it might be, and plug the security holes.

You can't. That's why they're called "soft targets". It would take an obscene amount of money (something schools just don't have) to properly secure them against an attack. The same goes for shopping malls, theaters, hospitals, restaurants, etc.

[archidante]

You can't. That's why they're called "soft targets". It would take an obscene amount of money (something schools just don't have) to properly secure them against an attack. The same goes for shopping malls, theaters, hospitals, restaurants, etc. Money is highly overated. An informed concerned populace doesn't need to be paid billions of dollars to watch their own butts; they just will. A population spoonfed pablum about political correctness and tolerance for an enemy that wants their heads on a platter, well, they're all yours. I can't walk through a mall with a cheap pair of sneakers without drawing the attention of every fashionista there. We can watch our backs as long as the we're will to admit were in a fight for our lives. Otherwise, BABOOM.:blush:

[Biker]

Money is highly overated. An informed concerned populace doesn't need to be paid billions of dollars to watch their own butts; they just will.

The majority of this population neither has the training, capacity nor will to be watchful at all times while in public. And one rabid suicide bomber in a tractor/trailer rig would negate all the watchfulness in the world while pulling up to a hospital or mall. Same with one in a "Staples" truck pulling up to a school. That isn't out of the ordinary and is expected. Get the vehicle close to the school then touch off the detonator.

Again, to properly secure a soft target requires an obscene amount of money. I know. I used to do this for a living while working for Uncle Sam.

[Misu]

I don't think there's any way to efficienty protect schools from being terrorist targets because of the simple fact that schools can't even be efficiently protected from pedophiles that will waltz onto school ground to do harm to a child during school hours. We can't keep kids safe from EACH OTHER while at school, we're going to keep them safe from a hell-bent terrorist?

[ShinyTop]

The most cost effective method to protect our soft targets is to properly fund our intelligence services and to properly secure our borders.

[cdw]

The most cost effective method to protect our soft targets is to properly fund our intelligence services and to properly secure our borders.
:thumbsup:

[archidante]

And one rabid suicide bomber in a tractor/trailer rig would negate all the watchfulness in the world while pulling up to a hospital or mall. Same with one in a "Staples" truck pulling up to a school.

Again, to properly secure a soft target requires an obscene amount of money. I know. I used to do this for a living while working for Uncle Sam.
Whoa. That's a scary thought. We used to just stand out front. One of my classrooms was just a few feet from the street. We'd have been toast if they had a truck loaded with explosives. Guess I'll opt with Shiny then-secure the borders and track our "visa" folks more closely. Thing is, they hit one of our schools and they'll deal with the wrath of our women. So far I think it's been the feminine energy in the culture that's kept us semi civilized. But women have a dark side too, and pity the poor bugger that taps that.

[Biker]

Here's another scary thought. It's virtually impossible to secure our borders. Think of the vast expanse of unprotected border to our north and south. Then think about how easy it would be for an undocumented individual to pass through that very same border. (It's easier from the north than south)

The very virtue of our society makes it easy for someone to slip into our country and create a bit of havoc. Tracking visas would be a band-aid solution. It doesn't fix the real issue of our border security and I'm afraid that's something we can't really fix.

[Coot]

Here's another scary thought. It's virtually impossible to secure our borders. Think of the vast expanse of unprotected border to our north and south. Then think about how easy it would be for an undocumented individual to pass through that very same border. (It's easier from the north than south)

The very virtue of our society makes it easy for someone to slip into our country and create a bit of havoc. Tracking visas would be a band-aid solution. It doesn't fix the real issue of our border security and I'm afraid that's something we can't really fix.

Sure it can be fixed, and for a helluva lot less money than we're spending on the WOT. Start with an Israel type fence, put 25,000 troops on each border to back up the border patrol, and if they get past the BP..oh say 25 miles past, they shoot to kill. It's not the money that is stopping this, it's the political will...and the cowtowing to Vicente Fox.

Edit: Of course the other option is to start enforcing existing law and upping the severity of sanctions on employers who hire illegals. $100K per illegal employment violation. Shutdown the demand, and the massive influx goes away. The Border Patrol would then be able to catch the relatively few OTM border crashers that try it.

[ShinyTop]

Here's another scary thought. It's virtually impossible to secure our borders. Think of the vast expanse of unprotected border to our north and south. Then think about how easy it would be for an undocumented individual to pass through that very same border. (It's easier from the north than south)

The very virtue of our society makes it easy for someone to slip into our country and create a bit of havoc. Tracking visas would be a band-aid solution. It doesn't fix the real issue of our border security and I'm afraid that's something we can't really fix.


Biker, I agree but that cost is much less than securing every soft target. Fences and guns if necessary, fences and guns.

[Biker]

Shutdown the demand, and the massive influx goes away. The Border Patrol would then be able to catch the relatively few OTM border crashers that try it.


Not until we increase the manpower of the Border Patrol to the point to where they can respond in a timely manner. Think of the thousands of miles of border between us and Canada. That's some pretty rugged country up there, and even with the sensors we have in place there, it can still be 3 days before an officer from the Border Patrol hits a specific area.

[Coot]

I think you missed my point. The vast majority of border crashers are coming through the southern border. Back them up with troops. The northern border is just as porous, but given the numbers, it should be easier to catch crashers. We have at least 8:1 agents on the southern border versus the northern and that's stil woefully inadequate. The dumb bastiches, including Ridge and Hutchinson still think it's all about percentages and not who is getting through. Militarize both borders and almost all of it goes away...and for a lot less money than it costs to go invading various sundry other countries.

[Biker]

Coot, I'm not thinking about the individuals who come across to look for work, although in a way, they're just as damaging to our economy.

I'm more concerned about the individual who sneaks across unnoticed, then procedes to target a school. And again, it's far easier to sneak across from our northern border.

[Coot]

Oh, I get your point Biker; but they're already coming across the southern border (http://www.kfi640.com/time_dooropen.html). And in some substantial numbers.

Who are these new arrivals? While the vast majority are Mexicans, a small but sharply growing number come from other countries, including those with large populations hostile to the U.S. From Oct. 1 of last year until Aug. 25, along the southwest border, the border patrol estimates that it apprehended 55,890 people who fall into the category described officially as other than Mexicans, or OTMs. With five weeks remaining in the fiscal year, the number is nearly double the 28,048 apprehended in all of 2002. But that's just how many were caught. TIME estimates, based on longtime government formulas for calculating how many elude capture, that as many as 190,000 illegals from countries other than Mexico have melted into the U.S. population so far this year. The border patrol, which is run by the Department of Homeland Security, refuses to break down OTMs by country. But local law officers, ranchers and others who confront the issue daily tell TIME they have encountered not only a wide variety of Latin Americans (from Guatemala, El Salvador, Brazil, Nicaragua and Venezuela) but also intruders from Afghanistan, Bulgaria, Russia and China as well as Egypt, Iran and Iraq. Law-enforcement authorities believe the mass movement of illegals, wherever they are from, offers the perfect cover for terrorists seeking to enter the U.S., especially since tighter controls have been imposed at airports.

This is from last month's Time Magazine (permissions granted to a local radio station). The point is, there isn't a mad rush of people trying to sneak in from Canada, so lone crashers should be easier to spot and apprehend there. Not so with the southern border, with 3 million getting across this year, it's not too hard to melt into the mix and disappear into the US.

Now couple that with the fact that Al Qaeda has been working with a very violent Salvadoran Gang (http://www.leesburg2day.com/current.cfm?catid=6&newsid=9558) with an established presense in Mexico and the US, and I think we can see where this is headed.

But a more alarming issue, for which law enforcement authorities weren’t prepared, are reports that the Islamic terrorist organization Al Qaeda is trying to form a partnership with the violent Salvadoran gang MS-13. Although reports of the connections are only trickling in, some congressmen are trying to get federal leaders—and mainly the president—to act on it right away.

U.S. Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA-10) and a spokeswoman for U.S. Rep. Solomon Ortiz (D-Brownsville, TX) confirmed that there have been reports that Al Qaeda and MS-13 have been trying to form a partnership.

[LissaKay]

And don't forget ... they let go many of those they catch ... the Federal Catch and Release Program for Illegal Aliens ... they say they don't have the facilities and man-power to incarcerate them or make sure they go back across the border.

[Coot]

I think what may have prompted this whole thing wasn't the Iraq with the disk, but this little item (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041013-121643-5028r.htm).

U.S. security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico in July.

The Chechen group is suspected of having links to Islamist terrorists seeking to separate the southern enclave of Chechnya from Russia, according to officials familiar with intelligence reports.

Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona that is difficult for U.S. border security agents to monitor, said officials speaking on the condition of anonymity.
The intelligence report was supplied to the U.S. government in late August or early September and was based on information from an intelligence source that has been proved reliable in other instances, one official said.

A second U.S. official said the report is being investigated, but said it could not be determined whether the group of Chechens actually entered the country, as the intelligence source reported.
"We don't know whether or not that report is true," this official said.

Ummm....could it be that they don't know whether or not it's true because they haven't a clue as to who is crossing that border at the rate of 3 million per year?

If we do get clobbered and it turns out they came across that border, anyone taking bets on impeachment proceedings agains whomever is president?

[ethics]

Chechens have yet to target anyone but Russia. If they do bring this war to us, they are in deep doodoo because US has always been a big critic of Russian campaign from '94 on.

[Coot]

Chechens have yet to target anyone but Russia. If they do bring this war to us, they are in deep doodoo because US has always been a big critic of Russian campaign from '94 on.

If this report turns out to be factual, I see it as reciprocity with AQ. The jihadists have been sending a lot of people to Chechnya, the Chechens may be returning the favor.

[ethics]

That still doesn't negate how detrimental ANY attack by these Chechens would be for their cause.

Hell, if I am in a CT mood, I would think the Russians sent them through Mexico.