Is Bush lying about American causualties?

[Bill Jackson]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=364 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=7>http://www.channel4.com/media/generic/spacer.gif</TD><TD class=mainHeader width=350>The unseen cost of the war in Iraq</TD><TD width=7>http://www.channel4.com/media/generic/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD class=headLines5>US Politics</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>



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Published: 10-Feb-2004
By: Jonathan Miller
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"More than 11,000 medical evacuees have come through Andrews in the past nine months, the Air Force says."

"Most, we suspect, from Iraq. But that's 8,000 more than the Pentagon says have been wounded there."

http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/02/week_2/10_iraq2.html

Drudge posted this one today. If it is true, notice I said if, Bush had better start preparing for another "regime change"--his own.

[Violet1966]

After reading this thread and hearing the sound clip, I'm convinced he's not wanting to let the people know exactly how horrific this war is getting. Now I have to say, I'm a Bush supporter. I don't agree with this war going on as it has, but I feel something had to be done, but I'm disgusted at the fact that these poor soldiers are being hidden from us, to avoid a failed election. http://www.globalaffairs.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19994&highlight=cher

That is a "sin" and does nothing for his credibility with me. It shouldn't be all about votes if he feels he's really been doing the right thing.

I understand the situation with the not having armor on the humvees, but I know damn well he has to see this problem for a while now, as the oil issues with the sand with the guns, and has done nothing to correct it!! :vmad:

[Sierra Mike]

Lots of soldiery deployed to Afghanistan and other contingency operations. I suspect more is being made of this than the facts would likely support.

SM

[Bill Jackson]

The real problem here is that Kerry--the annointed opponent--is an even worse option than Bush.

[Stiofán]

Bill, I can't trust that piece you posted. It's obvious political bent was extremely apparent throughout. However, the thrust of your post without the article's leanings, may be right on. It's hard to tell from such an attack job as that article, but if there are other sources, more reliable, I'd be interested in seeing them. I'll withhold judgement until then.

[Bill Jackson]

The reason that I held back was that it came from a Brit TV station and I suspect that there may be a left-leaning agenda involved. If the facts are true however, a lot of people here in the U.S. are going to be awful pissed off.

[ShinyTop]

A man with a sprained ankle from slipping in the shower is not wounded. A man who has a heart attack is not wounded. A man who suffers any injury that is not a direct effect of enemy action is not wounded. A man injured in an humvee accident is not wounded in Iraq any more than in Ft Benning, GA or Camp Zama, Japan. Yes, the number of evacuees is much higher than the number of wounded. It has always been so and will ever be so. I am not defending the administation. I do not know if they are spinning the figures or not. I know that this evidence is not evidence of spin, only of an agenda.

[Bill Jackson]

"I do not know if they are spinning the figures or not. I know that this evidence is not evidence of spin, only of an agenda."


I don't care if it is spin or agenda. My only concern is whether or not Bush is lying to the American people about the number of casualties.

[ShinyTop]

"I do not know if they are spinning the figures or not. I know that this evidence is not evidence of spin, only of an agenda."


I don't care if it is spin or agenda. My only concern is whether or not Bush is lying to the American people about the number of casualties.


And I wonder if you are shooting drugs with a needle but without evidence it is irresponsible to make such a charge. Same applies here. The evidence provided is bullshit. So do you have something substantial to base the discussion on or should we discuss your heroin addicition?

[Bill Jackson]

"The evidence provided is bullshit."

Kinda like the WMD's, huh...

[Sierra Mike]

"I do not know if they are spinning the figures or not. I know that this evidence is not evidence of spin, only of an agenda."


I don't care if it is spin or agenda. My only concern is whether or not Bush is lying to the American people about the number of casualties.
You don't care about the soldiers or anything along those lines either, right? It's all a witch hunt to hang Bush. Another ABB. How thrilling. PUNTS.

SM

[ShinyTop]

"The evidence provided is bullshit."

Kinda like the WMD's, huh...

Jackson, if you have read any posts I am very vocal that I think Bush lied to us about WMD's. That has no
:friggin: connection to this issue.

But since you are rather a simple fellow I will type slowly: The evidence you presented on the issue before us is nothing to base a belief that the entire military is lying to us about casualties. I do not know if they are or not but I am a believer in that each issue is separate and must be decided on evidence. I do not have complete faith in Bush and do not believe everything he says. But this forum is apparently a little more mature than ones you are used to and we try to have evidence before pillorying anybody to include Bush.

For my part, I am done with you. You have indicated your agenda has nothing to do with facts that can actually be discussed.

[Neo]

A man with a sprained ankle from slipping in the shower is not wounded. A man who has a heart attack is not wounded. A man who suffers any injury that is not a direct effect of enemy action is not wounded. A man injured in an humvee accident is not wounded in Iraq any more than in Ft Benning, GA or Camp Zama, Japan. Yes, the number of evacuees is much higher than the number of wounded. It has always been so and will ever be so. I am not defending the administation. I do not know if they are spinning the figures or not. I know that this evidence is not evidence of spin, only of an agenda.

Now Shiny if you are going to be reasonable, relevant, accurate, and nice get the f :friggin: k out of here! You have no place opposing the forces that you are responding to in this thread.

[tke711]

Jackson, if you have read any posts I am very vocal that I think Bush lied to us about WMD's. That has no
:friggin: connection to this issue.

But since you are rather a simple fellow I will type slowly: The evidence you presented on the issue before us is nothing to base a belief that the entire military is lying to us about casualties. I do not know if they are or not but I am a believer in that each issue is separate and must be decided on evidence. I do not have complete faith in Bush and do not believe everything he says. But this forum is apparently a little more mature than ones you are used to and we try to have evidence before pillorying anybody to include Bush.

For my part, I am done with you. You have indicated your agenda has nothing to do with facts that can actually be discussed.

If we still had the :thumbsup: , you'd get one from me ST.

[Domh]

Jesus H Christ - what part are some of our members missing as regards not attacking members and posting in a professional and mature manner?

I dont give a flying hogs colon in Spain if you toddlers dont see eye to eye on the issues.

Just address the ISSUES and spare us the PERSONAL ATTACKS.

Difficult? Not. Capiche?

"Attack the idea, not the person."

Cheers!

:thumbsup:

[Steve]

I posted about this over a month ago, when it was quickly pointed out that, according to independent sources, the medevacs comprised things like multiple fractures, broken legs, appendectomies, and so on.

The public tends to forget....no...the public doesn't realize that military service is inherently dangerous, even in peacetime. Service members receive more than their fair share of occupational injuries in addition to the normal rate of medical problems that afflict all of us.

[Bill Jackson]

"A man who has a heart attack is not wounded. A man who suffers any injury that is not a direct effect of enemy action is not wounded. A man injured in an humvee accident is not wounded in Iraq any more than in Ft Benning, GA or Camp Zama, Japan."

Let's not forget the suicides and suicide attempts that are occuring in record numbers over there. Maybe the guys on the ground in Iraq know something about what they're being ordered to do that you grand supporters of the troops back here are unaware of...

[Coot]

Ya' know, I don't believe I've ever attacked anyone on this board directly, but you're getting awfully fuckin' close. Have you ever been in combat? Cause I have, and to attempt to make an issue out of someone offing themself under combat conditions and to even intimate that it is something uniquely related to 'this' war is pretty repugnant. THEY ARE NOT COMBAT CASUALTIES. They are also not particularly driven to it by the circumstances, and in truth are people with issues completely unrelated. Vietnam also had its share of suicides as did Korea and WWII.

You do, in between bouts of nimrod statements and specious arguments, make cogent points. It's just that they get lost in the histrionics and hyperbole. It's almost as if you're intent on throwing as much shit up against the wall as you can and see who you can get to bite on any of it. How's about you narrow your focus and argue salient points rather than just shotgun the forum with scatalogical diatribe?

[ethics]

And on that note... I think this thread deserves to be closed. Not for the sake of replies, but for the sake of someone who puts up a thread and then refuse to even discuss what they have initially put up.

If we see other threads going in to the same beating the dead horse route, they too, shall be locked.