Simon Wiesenthal to be knighted, sort of.

[Sir Joseph]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1077164218422&p=1008596981749

I just have one question, it says that since he's not an English citizen he can only put KBE after his name and he can't use Sir.

If I want to add Sir to my name, why can't I? As an American, I'm not bound by British law. Is there some sort of rule that this is only for Britons?

[Frodo Lives]

Hmm. The same thing happened to Bill Gates when he was knighted. Bill Gates KBE..lol.

[Advocat]

Nope. It's a two-part action. First, to be a "Sir" is an indication of <b>English</b> nobility, thus a foreigner can't use the title while outside England. I think there's some loophole that allows them to be called an honourary Sir while in England, but it's not a title recognized outside the country. They can be a member of the order, just not have the title.

Secondly, and a bit of a holdover from colonial days, it's supposed to prevent people from being bribed with English titles. EG, Canadians by law are not allowed to use British titles of nobility. In a famous example, newspaper owner "Lord Black" gave up his Canadian citizenship in order to hold the title (and seat in parliament).

[Sir Joseph]

What if I don't want to be called Mr.? I can't be called Dr. because I do not have a doctorate degree from a university, but are you saying that the US itself prohibits citizens from being called Sir? I understand politicians can't but why can't I call myself whatever I want?

[joseftu]

Advocat's right, as far as the British rules go...but of course, you can call yourself whatever you want, as long as you have no fraudulent intent! You just won't have the title...even though it's your name. :)

I've had students named Major, Captain, Sergeant, even General. Not one of them had any military rank at all. Their moms just liked the names.

I also had another student named Early Times--and he wasn't a bottle of bourbon! ;)

[joseftu]

Oh! I forgot my favorite student name..."Princess."

It was hard to call on her in class with a straight face--so I usually just said "Your Majesty."
:)

[Sir Joseph]

I'm not talking about Sir as a first name, I'm talking as a title, like Mr., Rabbi, Dr., etc.

[joseftu]

Like any of those other titles, if you have no intent to defraud, it's kind of the equivalent of a nickname. So I don't think there's any law against it.

(But if you're going to be writing it down, or using it officially anywhere, I think you'd want to put a disclaimer: "Although I use the title Sir Joseph, I have not actually been knighted by the Queen of England or any other monarch.")

So--are you saying you're <b>not</b> actually, a knight, Sir Joseph?!!!
I'm shocked! :)

[Sir Joseph]

So--are you saying you're <b>not</b> actually, a knight, Sir Joseph?!!!
I'm shocked! :)I never said that. I'm talking of course hypothetical, for those that need it. :)

[Stiofán]

You'll have to give up your citizenship should you want the title. Americans are prohibited from holding titles of aristocracy per the constitution. Sorry.

[David McDuff]

Nope. It's a two-part action. First, to be a "Sir" is an indication of <b>English</b> nobility, thus a foreigner can't use the title while outside England. I think there's some loophole that allows them to be called an honourary Sir while in England, but it's not a title recognized outside the country. They can be a member of the order, just not have the title.

Secondly, and a bit of a holdover from colonial days, it's supposed to prevent people from being bribed with English titles. EG, Canadians by law are not allowed to use British titles of nobility. In a famous example, newspaper owner "Lord Black" gave up his Canadian citizenship in order to hold the title (and seat in parliament).

As a Brit, I was going to jump in here to attempt to explain, but you've beaten me to it.

On a rather unrelated note, I've never really understood why the wives of "Sirs" are meant to be addressed in such a peculiar way - they are not "Lady [husband's surname] but "[own first name] Lady [husband's surname] ".