White Only Scholarship

[Coot]

While it's only $250, it is a start. (http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/02/15/whites.only.ap/index.html)
<BR>
A student group at Roger Williams University is offering a new scholarship for which only white students are eligible, a move they say is designed to protest affirmative action.
The application for the $250 award requires an essay on "why you are proud of your white heritage" and a recent picture to "confirm whiteness."

"Evidence of bleaching will disqualify applicants," says the application, issued by the university's College Republicans.

[Sierra Mike]

Is that the ACLU and NAACP I hear approaching?

SM

[ethics]

I am sure the media will pick this up and make it on the same level as if the school leaders are KKK members.

The horror... the horror.

[Steve]

It's been floating around the media for two or three days, now, with not much furor. That could change as soon as someone sues for eighteen gajillion pongoes and then the "pundits" jump aboard the bandwagon.

[joseftu]

For those who think other race-based scholarships are wrong, isn't this wrong, too? Or is this an ends (drawing attention to the larger wrong) justifies the means (committing the same wrong on a smaller scale) situation?

I always thought that "ends justifies the means" was (almost always) a morally bankrupt position.

So, are these College Repbulicans really saying that race-based scholarships are totally fine, as long as they get their share? Seems to me like Mr. Mattera and his club need to think things through a little more clearly. Their parody isn't really working.

[Steve]

I think their parody is working fine. I also think the NAACP and related organizations won't dare say a word against this for fear of goring their own ox.

[Fiona]

media just picked it up.... it's featured on hannity and colmes....... LOL

it's crap........ IMO it''s sending the wrong message...... I am against affirmative action.. I believe it goes overboard in its attempt to give everyone a fair chance. But to offer this as some sort of rebuttal is the thinking of a racist. What happened to "Two wrongs don't make a right?"

[Coot]

It used to be that college administrators would censor conservative students who dare to point out the obvious, but now they're getting their tookus's sued over it. (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040216/opinion/16john.htm)


The fog of censorship on campus is beginning to lift, thanks to the pressure of litigation, bad publicity, and ridicule from a new and more pugnacious generation of collegians. The litigation is being handled by groups such as the Center for Individual Rights, the Alliance Defense Fund, and--most spectacularly--by the Philadelphia-based Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), which is now a major player in the campus wars. These groups have been winning free-speech cases one after another, creating momentum that is forcing many censorship-minded administrators into a defensive crouch.

Guilty. For most of the 1990s, speech restrictions met little resistance. After the courts struck down campus speech codes, universities simply (and dishonestly) recast the speech codes as behavior and antiharassment policies, using extremely broad language to forbid expression that annoys, embarrasses, or ridicules. The language made almost every accused student guilty as charged. The mainstream press ignored the issue, and students generally held their tongues, fearing retaliation. Now the students know how to call FIRE, and FIRE knows how to call Fox News. "The difference is that students now know they can win," said Thor Halvorssen, who recently stepped down as the chief executive officer of FIRE. Sometimes the victories are astonishingly easy. When FIRE sued Citrus College in California, the college quickly yielded, lifting its policy banning all "offensive . . . expression or language" and eliminating its policy of confining student protest to three small areas on campus.
The Center for Individual Rights is working out a settlement in the case of a white student punished for "disruption" after quietly posting a flier at the multicultural center of California Polytechnic State University. There was no disruption. The black students who complained simply didn't like the flier, which promoted a speech by a black conservative author. Cal Poly's action seemed clearly unconstitutional but typical of what many colleges got away with when nobody was watching. Terry Pell of CIR says his friends, left and right, are appalled when they hear about the Cal Poly case. CIR's attorney in the case, Carol Sobel, frequently works for the American Civil Liberties Union. And Pell says that judges of all political persuasions are appalled when CIR brings them cases like this, too.
You can't keep 'em down on the farm once they find their voice. This censorship on the part of the left is finally being challenged and it looks like the practicioners are just the latest form of paper tigers.

This action on the part of Mattera and cohorts actually works on two levels; it is parody in a sense and it puts a pretty good thumb into the eye of every other raced based award. Only now, college administrator's are more and more reluctant to censor it.

[ethics]

Coot, there's no bias in the left academia. Come off it man.

[Sierra Mike]

:lol:

SM

[Copzilla]

This action on the part of Mattera and cohorts actually works on two levels; it is parody in a sense and it puts a pretty good thumb into the eye of every other raced based award. Only now, college administrator's are more and more reluctant to censor it.
Exactly.

No, two wrongs don't make a right. That's the entire point of this whole exercise. They're both wrong. You cannot claim one is wrong without claiming the other is wrong.

[Fiona]

Exactly.

No, two wrongs don't make a right. That's the entire point of this whole exercise. They're both wrong. You cannot claim one is wrong without claiming the other is wrong.I understand that...... and I agree. As a statement, it's fine. I just think perhaps it's TOO blatant. Hey! maybe that's what it takes.

[Copzilla]

I understand that...... and I agree. As a statement, it's fine. I just think perhaps it's TOO blatant. Hey! maybe that's what it takes.
Well, simply SAYING that raced based scholarships were wrong wasn't ever enough to get people to agree. So vocal protest wasn't enough. If it were, we wouldn't be here.

[FrankF]

From the linked article: Mattera, who is of Puerto Rican descent, is himself a recipient of a $5,000 scholarship open only to a minority group.

I wonder, if Mattera is so upset over race based scholarships... why did he apply for the $5,000 scholarship that he received, or accept it even if he didn't apply for it? Maybe he will make a good politician later in life.

[xwhirledx]

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with race-based scholarships, if it's not coming from taxpayer dollars, that is, funded by the government.

There are so many ethnic-based groups out there, and if they are a private group, like a private club, or a private person, then I think they have a right to give their money to whomever they want.

Kinda like the whole golf thing. Honestly, I think it'd be great if a woman can play in that male-only golf club, Augusta, but it's a private club. I think they have a right to do what they want to do. If it's exclusion they want, so be it. You don't see boys joining the girl scouts, do you?

[Stiofán]

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with race-based scholarships, if it's not coming from taxpayer dollars, that is, funded by the government.

There are so many ethnic-based groups out there, and if they are a private group, like a private club, or a private person, then I think they have a right to give their money to whomever they want.

Kinda like the whole golf thing. Honestly, I think it'd be great if a woman can play in that male-only golf club, Augusta, but it's a private club. I think they have a right to do what they want to do. If it's exclusion they want, so be it. You don't see boys joining the girl scouts, do you?
Blasphamy woman! You realize thoughts like these will lead the liberal powers that be to disown you! Imagine giving the people the right to make their own choices in life.

You're obviously dangerous.

[xwhirledx]

Blasphamy woman! You realize thoughts like these will lead the liberal powers that be to disown you! Imagine giving the people the right to make their own choices in life.

You're obviously dangerous.

They can't disown me! I don't belong to anyone! ;)

And you haven't seen anything yet... lol

[Techie2000]

I am not impressed. I have heard of all sorts of different and strange scholarships, including one for <a href="http://www.faqs.org/faqs/lefty-faq/">left handed people</a>. Personally I don't see how offering scholarships for only white people protests affirmative action, but whatever floats their boat...

[Fiona]

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with race-based scholarships, if it's not coming from taxpayer dollars, that is, funded by the government.

?anybody can give a scholarship for anything... but affirmative action is the governments support for ethnically based help. I think that's wrong.

[Copzilla]

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with race-based scholarships, if it's not coming from taxpayer dollars, that is, funded by the government.Then you won't mind if all the rich white people decide to band together and only dole out their private scholarship funds to white people?

My point with regards to race relations is just this... You cannot preach desegregation and practice segregation. You cannot preach equal rights and demand favoritism. You cannot discriminate and then decry bigotry.

The Luis Farakhan syndrome. Hates everyone, so everyone hates him.

If we're all ever going to have racial harmony, we've got to get past it. The minorities are mostly the ones who don't want to.

[Coot]

I think she missed a substantial point in this. You can get a tax deduction if you donate to the American Negro College Fund, you don't get one if you donate to the White Academics Are Cool Fund.

On that level, it is a government funded program that does disenfranchise and discrimiante against white kids.

[joseftu]

Then you won't mind if all the rich white people decide to band together and only dole out their private scholarship funds to white people?They do.

This is part of the reason (other than "two wrongs make a right") that Mattera and his club are so silly. The affirmative action problem they want to point out is not a problem of private scholarships, it's a problem (as Coot says) of government programs. And of course, the fact that the college administration doesn't care, and is taking no action, must be proof of that old liberal bias! ;)

[Copzilla]

They do.Where?

[joseftu]

Right here in the United States of America, there are private scholarships only open to students of Irish descent, or German descent, or Scottish descent, etc., etc.

Private scholarships are set up by private individuals (or clubs, corporations, foundations, whatever). The funder gets to decide whatever criteria are to be applied. There are some really idiosyncratic ones--only for children of Dupont employees, or only for residents of specific neighborhoods, or only for children of the members of certain country clubs.

As I said, even if you see a problem with affirmative action, the problem is with public institutions and government. Private scholarships, by definition, are discriminatory (in the old-fashioned sense of the word) and limited.

[Copzilla]

Right here in the United States of America, there are private scholarships only open to students of Irish descent, or German descent, or Scottish descent, etc., etc.That's not what I said. WHITE. Skin color. Where are there WHITE scholarships? I asked if you would not have a problem with rich white people banding together and giving only scholarship money to WHITES, blacks, browns, yellows need not apply?

[Fiona]

That's not what I said. WHITE. Skin color. Where are there WHITE scholarships? I asked if you would not have a problem with rich white people banding together and giving only scholarship money to WHITES, blacks, browns, yellows need not apply?I'm not challenging Copz, so don't beat me up. But I don't think affirmative action even goes on COLOR... White is a color. Black is a color. Ethinicity is irish, german, dane, african, haitian, and junk.
Am i missing your point? is your point unclear? I think jo is right :huh:

[joseftu]

Nope. I have no problem with that. I haven't searched for such a thing, but I really don't see your point. Like I said...private scholarships can be based on whatever silly criteria the funder wants to set up. There's no regulation of such scholarships (nor should there be). It's completely a side-issue.

Criticizing affirmative action is important. But Mattera and his college Republicans have chosen a very ill-considered and irrational way to do it.

[Fiona]

Criticizing affirmative action is important. But Mattera and his college Republicans have chosen a very ill-considered and irrational way to do it.i think that's what I said :haha:

[cdw]

There are black only scholarships, aren't there? The united negro fund comes to mind. The African American scholarships, which we spoke about...are for black americans, not African.

[Fiona]

There are black only scholarships, aren't there? The united negro fund comes to mind. The African American scholarships, which we spoke about...are for black americans, not African.I believe you are right... i'm not sure, I'm going for clarity towards Copz (I just love to read his posts :love: *teehee)

[joseftu]

Fi's point, though, that none of these scholarships are based on skin color as Copz insists on defining it, is quite valid.

Are African Americans all "Black"? Are Caucasian Americans all "White"? Of course not.

When I get rich, I'm going to start a scholarship only for people who have ecru-colored skin.

[Copzilla]

Are African Americans all "Black"? Are Caucasian Americans all "White"? Of course not.Yes, and white African Americans are denied scholarships because they're not black.

I'm not going to debate a point in which my questions are not answered. They're being deflected.

UNCF and NAACP scholarships don't give a rat-f*ck about country of origin. I think everyone here knows that in spite of the attempt to deflect the issue. They only care about skin color, and that's what this white student protest is about. If you decry the white students doing this, then you cannot be in favor of skin-color based scholarships at all, else be a hypocrite.

[Fiona]

If you decry the white students doing this, then you cannot be in favor of skin-color based scholarships at all, else be a hypocrite.I'm not. :) I think they are both wrong.
but i know you aren't arguing with me. :)

[Copzilla]

There are black only scholarships, aren't there? The united negro fund comes to mind. The African American scholarships, which we spoke about...are for black americans, not African.You're absolutely right, Cyd, and white students from Africa have been denied them. They're based exclusively on race.

I believe that if we're ever going to get past this race thing, then the minorities have to give up their racist tendencies as well. It's a fallacy of liberal apologists that only whites are racist.

That's what I want to happen, and I know some people have good intent in mind, but they're going about it all wrong. We're becoming more and more divisive, not closer.

[joseftu]

Well, I guess you're right. They don't care about country of origin. A caucasian African is not eligible. But I'm sure you understand the concept of <b>ancestry!</b>

There are "Blacks" who are light-skinned, dark-skinned, every color ranging from Denzel Washington to Halle Berry. It's not color. Obviously. It's heritage, ancestry, everything that makes up our culture's definition of "race." If you want to substitute "race" for "color," I'll certainly understand. But an albino African American is not the same as a very dark-skinned Caucasian American. The "black" may be <b>lighter</b> than the "white." But that doesn't change the fact of their race.

Yes, there are race-based scholarships. But they're not <b>color</b>-based scholarships. That's what my "ecru" comment was designed to point out.

[Fiona]

I believe that if we're ever going to get past this race thing, then the minorities have to give up their racist tendencies as well. It's a fallacy of liberal apologists that only whites are racist.

That's what I want to happen, and I know some people have good intent in mind, but they're going about it all wrong. We're becoming more and more divisive, not closer.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[joseftu]

That's what I want to happen, and I know some people have good intent in mind, but they're going about it all wrong. We're becoming more and more divisive, not closer.<b>EXACTLY</b> what I would say about Mr. Mattera!

(And I see you're acknowledging, now, that it's race, not color.)

[Copzilla]

Yes, there are race-based scholarships. But they're not color-based scholarships. That's what my "ecru" comment was designed to point out.Then where are there WHITE race based scholarships? You said there are. Where?

[Copzilla]

EXACTLY what I would say about Mr. Mattera!Then by definition you should say the same thing about the UNCF, who will only give race based scholarships. Or be a hypocrite.

[joseftu]

Then where are there WHITE race based scholarships? You said there are. Where?I already named them, didn't I? Irish-American, German-American, etc. <b>are</b> WHITE race based scholarships. They're not open to anyone who is not Caucasian. They're just more specific about which <b>type</b> of Caucasian they'll accept. But many scholarships for Asian Americans, for example, are only for Korean Americans. These are race-based, and nation-of-origin-based, in the same way.
Then by definition you should say the same thing about the UNCF, who will only give race based scholarships. Or be a hypocriteNo, because Mr. Matera claims to be <b>against</b> race-based scholarships, yet he's sponsoring one. The UNCF makes no such claim. So I don't think they're going about it all wrong.

[FrankF]

Of course there are no "whites only" scholarships in America. That would be racist, and probably illegal too. Oh wait I found one: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1355/19_96/57042470/p1/article.jhtml According to this article, black students at Alabama State University find "the subsidizing of White students at ASU (is)offensive", and that "White students on the scholarship are less qualified than they are and that the university is only lowering its academic standards", and "any scholarship program that excludes blacks is unfair". Funny how only white people can be racists, and black people are only getting what white people "owe" them. :crazy:

You know, I could almost stomach the blatant discrimination that results from blacks only scholarships if I didn't have to read on my employer's Intranet homepage every :friggin: day about how they embrace "diversity in the workplace", and support historically black colleges and universities and the United Negro College Fund. And some day next week is Black History Month "Soul Food Day" in the cafeteria. Fine if they want to throw millions of dollars away while ignoring my white kids' education needs? Just don't throw it in my face everytime I open Internet Explorer.


(No... changing the IE start page isn't an option).

[Copzilla]

I already named them, didn't I? Irish-American, German-American, etc. are WHITE race based scholarships.No they're not. If an Irish or German were something other than white, he/she would qualify.

If the UNCF scholarships were for people from Kenya, and they were given to blacks over the course of history, so long as a white person from Kenya would qualify, I would have no problem with them.

UNCF scholarships given out on the basis of skin color ALONE. BLACK people. Doesn't matter their national origin. Doesn't matter anything other than they're NEGROID. That's racist.

No, because Mr. Matera claims to be against race-based scholarships, yet he's sponsoring one.In protest. He made that scholarship as a protest. He's refusing to sit in the back of the bus, joseftu. You disagree with him, but agree with UNCF?

[cdw]

Well, I guess you're right. They don't care about country of origin. A caucasian African is not eligible. But I'm sure you understand the concept of <b>ancestry!</b>

There are "Blacks" who are light-skinned, dark-skinned, every color ranging from Denzel Washington to Halle Berry. It's not color. Obviously. It's heritage, ancestry, everything that makes up our culture's definition of "race." If you want to substitute "race" for "color," I'll certainly understand. But an albino African American is not the same as a very dark-skinned Caucasian American. The "black" may be <b>lighter</b> than the "white." But that doesn't change the fact of their race.

Yes, there are race-based scholarships. But they're not <b>color</b>-based scholarships. That's what my "ecru" comment was designed to point out.

The united negro college fund has no difficulty using the word...Black. Why do you? Black colleges have no difficulty with the term Black colleges... why do you? That's kind of funny. :)

[joseftu]

In protest. He made that scholarship as a protest. He's refusing to sit in the back of the bus, joseftu. You disagree with him, but agree with UNCF?I'm not really sure I do disagree with Mattera. I just think his protest is not very effective, because he contradicts his own principles. But I'm kind of unsure about those principles. And I'm not really sure I agree with the UNCF, either, but I don't think they're hypocritical or self-contradictory. They're very clear, and completely true, to their principles. Again, I'm kind of unsure about those principles.

I know that many people here are positive that affirmative action is always and automatically a bad thing. I know that many people here assume (Leon made the assumption once, and then apologized) that because I'm a liberal, I think that affirmative action is always and automatically a good thing. But that's not what I think. I can see the validity in arguments that the time for affirmative action has passed. It could well be that, although racism still exists, affirmative action is no longer an effective tool in fighting it. It may be making things worse. I'm not totally convinced of either side.

But I am totally convinced that protests need to take a higher moral ground than what they're protesting. If Mattera thinks race-based scholarships are wrong, then he should not be promoting a race-based scholarship. That's not an effective protest. Rosa Parks, to whom you refer, Copzilla, didin't buy a bus and drive around saying that all whites could only sit in the back. The whole idea of "I was discriminated against, so now I'm going to discriminate against you" seems to be the main thing that bothers people about affirmative action. You don't end oppression by becoming the oppression.

And, Cyd, I have no trouble using the word "Black" or "white." But I understand that these are terms for <b>race</b>, which is more complicated than <b>color</b>. They're symbols, shorthand. I was objecting to Copzilla's claim that <b>color</b> was the basis of these scholarships. But I think I was nit-picking...misinterpreting. I think he was (and still is) using the same kind of shorthand. When he says "skin color" he <b>means</b> "race."

For example, I think that he would consider a scholarship which is only available to Asian Americans as being based on "skin color," even though (racist associations with "yellow" aside) Asian Americans generally can not be distinguished on the basis of skin color.

So, go ahead and use the word "Black" but realize that it's <b>not</b> about color. It's about <b>race.</b> That's an important distinction, because color <b>within</b> different races is another issue entirely. (Read Louise Bennett's excellent poem "Color Bar")

[Copzilla]

And, Cyd, I have no trouble using the word "Black" or "white." But I understand that these are terms for race, which is more complicated than color. They're symbols, shorthand. I was objecting to Copzilla's claim that color was the basis of these scholarships. But I think I was nit-picking...misinterpreting. I think he was (and still is) using the same kind of shorthand. When he says "skin color" he means "race."
They are becoming rather synonymous in today's society. We say race, but you know, there are only three races. Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid. "Hispanic" is not a race. Asian is not a race.

However, in terms of the UNCF, yes, they are based on race, in a strict sense.

[ShinyTop]

They are becoming rather synonymous in today's society. We say race, but you know, there are only three races. Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid. "Hispanic" is not a race. Asian is not a race.

However, in terms of the UNCF, yes, they are based on race, in a strict sense.

Please tell me the French are Negroid or Mongoloid! Please.

[Coot]

Please tell me the French are Negroid or Mongoloid! Please.
The French are living proof that Neanderthals had unnatural congress with weasels.

[Fiona]

The French are living proof that Neanderthals had unnatural congress with weasels.:lol: :lol: :lol: rofl rofl :lol: rofl :thumbsup: