Ireland, Baltics and the EU

[David McDuff]

The IHT has an interesting take on the EU's smaller nations and newest members:

http://www.iht.com/ihtsearch.php?id=129153&owner=(IHT)&date=20040212044306

[ethics]

Holy cow! IN millions of years I would never think the connection or the push towards Ireland of all places. Then again, looking at the history--raped by SU, not really welcomed by the western neighbors. Maybe it's because Ireland is far enough away. ;)

[David McDuff]

Holy cow! IN millions of years I would never think the connection or the push towards Ireland of all places. Then again, looking at the history--raped by SU, not really welcomed by the western neighbors. Maybe it's because Ireland is far enough away. ;)


I think it's the "neighboring colonialist giant" factor that cuts most ice, apparently. Amazing how that stereotype refuses to go away. :) Anyway, aren't you in the US the giants nowadays?

[ethics]

I think it's the "neighboring colonialist giant" factor that cuts most ice, apparently. Amazing how that stereotype refuses to go away. :) [quote]Anyway, aren't you in the US the giants nowadays?
Hehe, yes. :)

[Allene]

Interesting article and not altogether surprising. I've been reading up on Ireland lately in preparation for a first-time visit the summer of 2006.

[David McDuff]

Interesting article and not altogether surprising. I've been reading up on Ireland lately in preparation for a first-time visit the summer of 2006.

I've never been to Ireland - even though some of my family comes from there. This is typical of Scots. :)

[Robert Harris]

David -- I am amazed. Ireland is practically in your back are. Or, as I am sure the Irish would say, your front yard. :)

I've never been anywhere in UK except London.

[David McDuff]

David -- I am amazed. Ireland is practically in your back are. Or, as I am sure the Irish would say, your front yard. :)

I've never been anywhere in UK except London.

It's just a fact that most Scots never visit Ireland, and most Irish people never visit Scotland. Same exclusiveness is typical of Wales!

Don't know why this should be. Something about Celtic competition, I suppose. :)

[Robert Harris]

Interesting. That is about the equivalent of a New Yorker never visiting New Jersey. In fact a lot of us do avoid that wretched state, but not obsessively.

[David McDuff]

Interesting. That is about the equivalent of a New Yorker never visiting New Jersey. In fact a lot of us do avoid that wretched state, but not obsessively.

That might be more akin to the rivalry, in Scotland, between Edinburgh and Glasgow. The two cities are some 40 miles apart, yet their inhabitants very rarely come into contact, and there is a lot of contempt on both sides. It has something to do with the Catholic/Protestant divide, but there is more to it than that.

[Robert Harris]

I've recently been reading a few books by Ian Rankin -- murder mystery types. He is based in Edinburgh and the Edinburgh cops are the good guys. But the distaste for Glascow comes through quite clearly -- as do Catholic-Protestant hostilities. (Good, griitty books. Good writer of that sort of thing.)

[Allene]

David, the Scots are a clannish lot. I should know, having solidly Scottish ancestry, except for a great-great grandmother who was Irish. While working on the family tree I discovered she was actually born in Scotland. I think her people worked for a highborn family and had to leave Ireland when that family moved. There's even a ghost in that family.

But if you go back far enough, especially in the Western Isles (Outer Hebrides to you other folks), there are a lot of connections between Ireland and Scotland. I've got relatives on both sides of the family from South Uist.

After my peope came to Canada they proceeded to intermarry among fellow Scots from the 1790s through the end of World War II, with the odd person of Irish descent thrown in from time to time. It's a wonder that I turned out reasonably sane. :)

[David McDuff]

I've recently been reading a few books by Ian Rankin -- murder mystery types. He is based in Edinburgh and the Edinburgh cops are the good guys. But the distaste for Glascow comes through quite clearly -- as do Catholic-Protestant hostilities. (Good, griitty books. Good writer of that sort of thing.)

Yes, I like Rankin's thrillers - and they really do give a realistic portrayal of the Edinburgh atmosphere. The novel of his I like best is "Black and Blue".

[David McDuff]

But if you go back far enough, especially in the Western Isles (Outer Hebrides to you other folks), there are a lot of connections between Ireland and Scotland. I've got relatives on both sides of the family from South Uist.

Allene, going back in history is one thing, but modern Scotland and Ireland are something else. :) There may be some contacts between Scotland and Northern Ireland nowadays (esp in the south of Scotland), but contacts between Scotland and the Republic of Ireland are rare.

[Allene]

I've recently been reading a few books by Ian Rankin -- murder mystery types. He is based in Edinburgh and the Edinburgh cops are the good guys. But the distaste for Glascow comes through quite clearly -- as do Catholic-Protestant hostilities. (Good, griitty books. Good writer of that sort of thing.)

Bob, I was going to say that David recommended Ian Rankin to me a few years ago, but he beat me to it. I only read one of his books because that detective was making me queasy. He had Scotch for breakfast--just Scotch--when he should have been eating oatmeal porridge like a good Scot. My husband has read most of his books, though.

We visited both Glasgow and Edinburgh in 1999. They are literally worlds apart. It's amazing how much mileage people can get out of that old Protestant/Catholic problem.

[David McDuff]

It's amazing how much mileage people can get out of that old Protestant/Catholic problem.

Allene, I'm not sure if it's so much a question of mileage as one of actual concerns - the situation in Northern Ireland is echoed in Scotland, though mercifully so far in a non-violent way.


David

[Robert Harris]

Yes, I like Rankin's thrillers - and they really do give a realistic portrayal of the Edinburgh atmosphere. The novel of his I like best is "Black and Blue".

I haven't seen that one. I have only recently run across him, browsing through B&N one day. A great find.

[Allene]

Allene, I'm not sure if it's so much a question of mileage as one of actual concerns - the situation in Northern Ireland is echoed in Scotland, though mercifully so far in a non-violent way.


David

David, the trouble with me is that I have, out of necessity in doing family research, had my head stuck in the period from 1790 to 1830. When I mentioned mileage, I was thinking of how the Catholic religion had been an underground practice in the days my people were still living over there, but that changed, at least on paper, during the first half of the 1800s. I wasn't thinking of the current situation in Ireland, as I should have been.

[David McDuff]

I haven't seen that one. I have only recently run across him, browsing through B&N one day. A great find.

If you plan to read a lot of his books, I'd suggest that "Black and Blue" is the best one to start with. But they're all good.