Is Mars Ours?

[ethics]

But what should we plan to do on Mars over the following decades, centuries, and millennia? The Mars Society (http://www.marssociety.org/), an organization dedicated to the proposition that we must send people to Mars ASAP, has an answer: build enclosed colonies there in the next few decades. Then, later in the century, begin to "terraform" Mars—this means altering the air and surface, turning the red planet blue and green, making it habitable and remaking it in the Earth's image. After that, we'll wander there without giant protective domes or even Mars suits.

Excellent article in Slate (http://slate.msn.com/id/2093579/)regarding the thread's question. I don't think one CAN answer sufficiently in one article, I think you need a set of manuals, something along the lines of Robinson's Red, Blue, Green Mars trilogy, but let's keep it simple.

How do we know Mars, as a planet belongs to anyone? Should it belond to the first person/country that walks there? How would land be divided when others land there?

[Coriolis]

Taking history as my guide, like any unclaimed territory it will belong to the first people to plant a flag. If earthings, then I guess it belongs to earth (assuming there isn't already someone/thing there!).

Now, perhaps a better question (perhaps this is what you meant anyway) is whether it would belong to the US, or the Japanese, or Brits... whichever country gets there first. That's a tougher question.

[ethics]

Now, perhaps a better question (perhaps this is what you meant anyway) is whether it would belong to the US, or the Japanese, or Brits... whichever country gets there first. That's a tougher question.
Aye, that's what I meant. If US plants a flag at spot A and Russia does it in spot B, how are the borders drawn?

[Sierra Mike]

Aye, that's what I meant. If US plants a flag at spot A and Russia does it in spot B, how are the borders drawn?
If the Americans get there first and plant the flag, it's US territory. The same holds true for the Moon, but the US never legalized the claim. Would have been a little hypocritical given Armstrong's "One giant leap for Mankind" gig.

SM

[Violet1966]

Aye, that's what I meant. If US plants a flag at spot A and Russia does it in spot B, how are the borders drawn?

They go to war over it, as has been done before. I don't think we're civilized enough yet, to do it differently ;) :(

[ShinyTop]

We let the Pope decide. That's how North and South America were dividied.

[Fiona]

How do we know Mars, as a planet belongs to anyone? Should it belond to the first person/country that walks there? How would land be divided when others land there?unclaimed territory (we ASSUME ;) )... king of the hill and all - first one to claim it has the rights (sucks though)

[Fiona]

Aye, that's what I meant. If US plants a flag at spot A and Russia does it in spot B, how are the borders drawn?to me if not simultaneously.... then it doesnt matter... whoever is there first, "owns" it.... you wanna visit? pay the toll :lol: (well i amuse ME- and that's all that matters :P )

[Stiofán]

Wow, some questions are quite pressing. However, in this case we'll all be very dead before this one needs answering. If the asteroid hits us first or the missles yet get launched, it'll be a moot point anyway.
:lol:

[Fiona]

Wow, some questions are quite pressing. However, in this case we'll all be very dead before this one needs answering. If the asteroid hits us first or the missles yet get launched, it'll be a moot point anyway.
:lol:sources ( i forgot who , okay? :nut: ) say, that we will ALL be dead of our own doing... before we ever colonize mars... and they didn't say nukes or asteroid... they meant of our own "killing the planet" type stuff.

[Stiofán]

Kinda pressed the wrong font size button there, huh? :P

[joseftu]

Well, I know the UN is not too popular around here--but they've already solved this question in the 1967 Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies:


Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means. (http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/SpaceLaw/outersptxt.htm)
In fact, the issue was already settled in a 1927 song (I have an mp3 of the Inkspots' version, if you like)


The moon belongs to everyone
The best things in life are free,
The stars belong to everyone
They gleam there for you and me.
The flowers in Spring,
The robins that sing,
The sunbeams that shine
They're yours,
They're mine!
And love can come to everyone,
The best things in life are free.

[Fiona]

Kinda pressed the wrong font size button there, huh? :PNo, it was on purpose :P cause I'm feeling "worthy" :happy:

[Fiona]

Well, I know the UN is not too popular around here--but they've already solved this question in the 1967 Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies:



In fact, the issue was already settled in a 1927 song (I have an mp3 of the Inkspots' version, if you like)well it's nice that "WE" have that rule...... but what if the aliens don't share it... huh? what then? do we at least "own" it as a planet? (i'm killin meself with this attitude:lol: - i'm playing devil's advocate)

[IamZed]

I doubt any single nation will mount the first trip to Mars. It will be a multinational crew that lands there so no one will be claiming it.

[SixofNine]

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

Ah, not subject to national appropriation. If I may parse this treaty language in a Clintonesque fashion, I claim Mars in the name of Loudoun County, Virginia. I also claim Europa in the name of Bayonne, New Jersey. :)

Brian

[Steve]

As Joe pointed out, the planets cannot be "owned" by anyone, per se.

There are two problems, insurmountable imo, with colonizing and terraforming Mars.

The first is that Mars currently has no atmosphere worth the name. As a result, meteors and other debris falling out of the sky do not mostly burn up in the atmosphere, as they do on Earth. They fall, unimpeded, with the full force of their impact. Even tiny meteors pack a whallop of energy, enough to puncture the sturdiest of structures. This means that underground, deep underground habitations would be necessary. The cost and time required to construct such habitations would seem to be prohibitive.

If that difficulty should be surmounted, there is still the problem of Mars' relatively small gravity. I have read a couple of different articles over the years, in mass-oriented science magazines, that Mars' gravity is simply insufficient to retain an atmosphere. Even with unlimited energy reducing the red rocks of mars to elemental iron and oxygen, the oxygen produced would simply drift into space. Terraforming is, most likely, not even possible.

[Stiofán]

So everyone has heard that Bush has proposed today that we establish a base on the Moon within ten years in preparation to a manned mission to Mars, estimated to cost in excess of 1 trillion dollars. He didn't mention including other nations either.

[ethics]

So everyone has heard that Bush has proposed today that we establish a base on the Moon within ten years in preparation to a manned mission to Mars, estimated to cost in excess of 1 trillion dollars. He didn't mention including other nations either.
Yep! Let the debate begin!!!

If we terraform Mars, can we, the US claim it?

[Coot]

Yep! Let the debate begin!!!

If we terraform Mars, can we, the US claim it?
If we hired cheap Mexican labor to do the job, it would cut down on the machinery required and we could probably cut the price in half ;) Bush could then give them U.S./Martian citizenship and as an added bonus, we'd already have the labor in place to immediately start mining.

[Sierra Mike]

Yep! Let the debate begin!!!

If we terraform Mars, can we, the US claim it?
We sure can. And that little UN agreement that was signed means diddly...back in 1969, I remember John Chancellor reporting on other nations having "deep concerns" that the US would claim the Moon as its sole possession. (Of course, this was probably the Soviet Union making the noise...but it woulda served them right to have to look at a US possession hovering in the skies overhead most nights.)

But terraforming Mars will never happen...we can't even terraform Florida. :)

SM

[ditch]

Maybe someone has been there before you.