Iraqi WMD's May Exist After All

[ethics]

Syrian defector has written to the Dutch Telegraaf, telling them where Saddam's WMD are hidden.



Nizar Najoef, a Syrian journalist who recently defected from Syria to Western Europe and is known for bravely challenging the Syrian regime, said in a letter Monday, January 5, to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf,” that he knows the three sites where Iraq’s WMD are kept. The storage places are:



1. Tunnels dug under the town of al-Baida near the city of Hama in northern Syria. These tunnels are an integral part of an underground factory, built by the North Koreans, for producing Syrian Scud missiles. Iraqi chemical weapons and long-range missiles are stored in these tunnels.



2. The village of Tal Snan, north of the town of Salamija, where there is a big Syrian airforce camp. Vital parts of Iraq’s WMD are stored there.



3. The city of Sjinsjar on the Syrian border with the Lebanon, south of the city Homs.



Najoef writes that the transfer of Iraqi WMD to Syria was organized by the commanders of Saddam Hussein’s Special Republican Guard, including General Shalish, with the help of Assif Shoakat , Bashar Assad’s cousin. Shoakat is the CEO of Bhaha, an import/export company owned by the Assad family.



In February 2003, a month before America’s invasion in Iraq, DEBKAfile and DEBKA-Net-Weekly were the only media to report the movement of Iraqi WMD, the efforts to bring them from Iraq to Syria, and the personal involvement of Bashar Assad and his family in the operation.



Najoef, who has won prizes for journalistic integrity, says he wrote his letter because he has terminal cancer.

Of course, there's plenty of looking but the topic is far from dead and done with.

[Stiofán]

[cynic mode]And the NSA has photos of transports crossing the border just prior and after the start of the war. But who cares. Bush deliberately lied. Saddam was a nice guy and stalled for twelve years because he, well it just doesn't matter. It was an illegal war. And nobody is safer now that Saddam is captured, his freak kids are dead, Lybia has capitulated, Iran has agreed to inspections, North Korea is about to. After all, Osama is still out there (if he wasn't killed, buried, starved, etc).

People have their minds made up. Parading Iraq's WMD down Times Square wouldn't convince anyone at this point anyway.[/cynic mode]

[Sierra Mike]

Hey, it would convince me! I said I'd give 'em a year to find 'em before I changed my mind about this stuff, and the year is almost up...if this guy's story checks out, then hoo-ah.

SM

[FrankF]

If there really were any WMDs there when the newspaper article was published Sunday, they aren't there now.

[ShinyTop]

Wow, and damn, the WMD's are stored where it cannot be verified. Surprise, surprise.

[Stiofán]

Wow, and damn, the WMD's are stored where it cannot be verified. Surprise, surprise.

Need I say more.

[Coriolis]

Wow, and damn, the WMD's are stored where it cannot be verified. Surprise, surprise.Why can't it be verified? And where's the link to the story Leon?

[ShinyTop]

How much aid do you expect the Syrians to provide in verifying this? Sorry if that seems skeptical. Eight months after the war starts and we get this as proof they existed. The administration has not even provided their sources.

To answer your question, no, you do not need to say more. Did you think that a story about WMD's being beneath the Planet of the Apes would completely change the events of the past year?

Actually I would prefer we find them and that we find that Bush and company actually had proof. I doubt either will happen. But your sarcasm and contempt for people who have questioned this is obvious and misplaced. Even if proven wrong our questioning was done for all the right reasons.

And, of course, I wonder if this does not bear out how many will still completely support the president's honesty and respect for the American people? No wait, I was wrong. He has shown the amount of respect he has for Americans......if they come from Mexico.

[LissaKay]

Can anyone translate Dutch (http://www.wxs.nl/planet/show/id=85106/contentid=433650/sc=831b56)?

[ditch]

Perhaps these new pictures from the Mars lander will reveal something of interest. :)

[Stiofán]

How much aid do you expect the Syrians to provide in verifying this? Sorry if that seems skeptical. Eight months after the war starts and we get this as proof they existed. The administration has not even provided their sources.

To answer your question, no, you do not need to say more. Did you think that a story about WMD's being beneath the Planet of the Apes would completely change the events of the past year?

Actually I would prefer we find them and that we find that Bush and company actually had proof. I doubt either will happen. But your sarcasm and contempt for people who have questioned this is obvious and misplaced. Even if proven wrong our questioning was done for all the right reasons.

And, of course, I wonder if this does not bear out how many will still completely support the president's honesty and respect for the American people? No wait, I was wrong. He has shown the amount of respect he has for Americans......if they come from Mexico.

You've hung your hat on the "Bush has lied" line since about summer or so, and you have your reasons. I have not. I've said before I felt they had WMD, but I didn't know for sure, or even if they did that we'd find them. There have been posts here before that there was some evidence (not conclusive by any means, but some) that the WMD were sent to either Syria or Iran, so this is not new. The above report by this defector is more evidence, but still far from conclusive. Still your retort was expected, (not coming from you actually, I'm surprised there) from some who would belittle any news of WMD being found. Your one line dismissive remark was just that. Did you mean it in another way? The tone of it was pretty clear. Had you worded it in another way, perhaps saying that it would take more than just another unsubstanciated confession of a Syrian defector so we'll have to wait and see, I wouldn't have even posted.

Sorry you took offense at my use of your post. I mean that sincerely, BTW.

[Coriolis]

How much aid do you expect the Syrians to provide in verifying this? Sorry if that seems skeptical. Eight months after the war starts and we get this as proof they existed. The administration has not even provided their sources.

To answer your question, no, you do not need to say more. Did you think that a story about WMD's being beneath the Planet of the Apes would completely change the events of the past year?

Actually I would prefer we find them and that we find that Bush and company actually had proof. I doubt either will happen. But your sarcasm and contempt for people who have questioned this is obvious and misplaced. Even if proven wrong our questioning was done for all the right reasons.

And, of course, I wonder if this does not bear out how many will still completely support the president's honesty and respect for the American people? No wait, I was wrong. He has shown the amount of respect he has for Americans......if they come from Mexico.Good grief, Shiny, you can't possibly be talking to me (ref bold), yet you seem to be addressing my question about verification, which was a question spurred by curiosity, not animosity.

Actually, what I was most interested in was getting a link to story to read!

[Sierra Mike]

For myself, I'm actually more on Shiny's side of the fence...while not completely convinced either way, I do feel there was a bit of fact-cooking going on, through which the "evidence" was made more compelling than it ordinarily might have been.

By the same token, I'm not at all against rolling hot into Iraq and kicking Saddam's ass to the moon. It should've been done long ago; if not during my tour of duty there (affectionately referred to as "Saudi Duty Time" by those of us stuck in the Great Fried Empty), then it certainly should have happened afterwards. Resolutions were not being met, and they weren't being enforced, either.

I do still believe the Hussein Regime was all over WMDs, as much as they could have been. Clearly, he used them in the past. But whether they were a direct threat to the US is another matter. And that matter was, perhaps, fluffed up a bit more than the apparent actual threat.

Look, I was led to believe we'd find stockpiles of stuff. We haven't. While I was and still am more than willing to make war on the Hussein Regime, there was never any reason to lie to me about it. Just point me in the right direction, and leave the triggers to me.

SM

[ShinyTop]

My apologies InsAgt. I felt your post was pretty dismissive of the position of those who demand proof of the reason Bush gave for the war. I am still surprised that anybody would believe claims of their being in Syria is any kind of proof. Syria and Iran are probably the only two countries in that part of the world that would absolutely not cooperate with us and Iran would not have cooperated with Saddam. I feel that if we were watching the stockpiles of WMD we would have satellite proof of this instead of speculation.

Please drop back about 10 months. We knew that had tons and tons and we had proof and we knew where they were. If so, it is grossly negligent that we did not follow the whereabouts.

Peace. My back has been getting worse and I guess the further loss of mobility has me a bit short tempered. Please accept my apologies if I take something wrong.

Cor, I was answering part of your post but also InsAgt's.

[Robert Harris]

Don't worry guys. This will all be settled afgter the invasion of Syria.

[Sierra Mike]

rofl

SM

[Violet1966]

Can anyone translate Dutch (http://www.wxs.nl/planet/show/id=85106/contentid=433650/sc=831b56)?

Translation of http://www.wxs.nl/planet/show/id=85106/contentid=433650/sc=831b56 :

"' Iraq hides weapons in Syria '

Published on Monday 05 January 2004

Saddam Hussein hid its mass destruction weapons in Syria, thus a dissidente communicates Iraqi journalist to the telegraph.
The Iraqi journalist Nizar Najoef - in 2000 winner, of the Unescoprijs for press freedom - played Saturday a letter with a country card to the telegraph by, on which the locations where the weapons have been hidden, are indicated. Najoef will have got the card of a high Iraqi information officer.

The mount places a tunnel in a mount at Al-Baida, two have been among others lain kilometres of Masjaf, and a factory of the Syrian air power in the village tal Snan, between Hama and Salamijja. At Sjinsjar, Eastern of the way between Hama and damascus, on some dozens of meters depth weapons have been stored in tunnels, which 661e the battalion of the air power in use has.

The weapons under responsibility of the chef of the presidential lijfwacht, general balmy Himma Sjaliesj, Syria have been smuggled in. He was supported by its cousin Asaf, who works at the firma Bacha-Ir. The venture is in the hands of the presidential family Assad. According to the letter writer Bacha-Ir smuggled already oil of Iraq to Syria, and weapons of Syria to Iraq.

According to Najoef the US and Great Britain know already for a long time that Syria hides the mass destruction weapons of Saddam Hussein. THE US want to political reasons ruchtbaarheid still no to give; they want not yet from the Syrian government, thus Najoef reason.

The mass destruction weapons of Iraq were for the US and Great Britain reason attack Iraq. They zoeken with man and power to the weapons, but so far nothing have been found there.

Source: Telegraph

(c) 2003 Neos.Netherlands/Planet Internet"

[limeygit]

Don't worry guys. This will all be settled afgter the invasion of Syria.

After which it will be proved they were moved again...
And then, god help Luxembourg, as we discover they were the evil geniuses behind it all the time...

[pupowski]

Maybe the WMD's are in Saddam Hussein's U-Haul storage locker.
Maybe the Carnegie Foundation report is another conspiracy theory.
Maybe Shinytop has this WMD business all wrong.
Maybe David Kay got it wrong too.

I wouldn't bet on any of the above,however. More likely the latest story is another neocon smokescreen, and some of you just won't admit you were wrong.


"Diverting public attention is a central purpose of propaganda. Nothing is more successful in this respect than whipping up the rednecks in society into a ferment of nationalist and chauvinistic fervour. It will then be easy to launch any militaristic adventure that the politicians had in mind. That is precisely what we have seen. The fact that Saddam, nasty though he is, had nothing to do with 9/11 ceases to matter. Fat barmaids and sad drunks suddenly become five star generals, experts in bunker busting bombs, and masters of psi-ops. The war is featured non-stop in the bars of the land and woe betide anyone who disagrees with the experts. They are plainly not experts on propaganda!…" http://www.adelphiasophism.com/warandpropaganda/03Propaganda.html#The Propaganda Industry

[bruzzes]

Why do I feel skeptical about this topic?

Not that their might have been movement of weapons to Syria, during the first Gulf War, Saddam attempted to save his Air Force by flying his planes to Iran, ( ironic isn't it?), but mostly because of the focus on WMD as the "only" salient point for the invasion of Iraq.

The purpose of this endeavor was a result of a dramatic shift in foreign policy. For too long, the US had fought minor proxy wars, suffered from the fear of Viet-Nam syndrome, and wafted between isolationism and ambivalence.

With the attack on American soil, a man of great fortitude decided that enough was enough. He gave warning to the world that terrorism and the supporters of terrorism will have an accounting.

The acts of force in Afghanistan and subsequently in Iraq has proven the point that this is the beginning of the end for nations that refuse liberty for it's people.

And what has been the result of this new foreign policy?

A new constitution and the start of some form of unifying government for the Afghan people. The same elements are being formed in Iraq. The fear of reprisals in Iran that led to verifiable inspections related to nuclear exploitation. The major shift of Libya and in the near future of North Korea. The acknowledgment of the UN for needed change, and the message sent loud and clear to France, Germany and Russia that a new world order is now in effect . A shifting in the middle-east where Egypt and Libya now hold secret meetings with Israel, where Saudi Arabia now is forced to deal with the terrorists that they helped foment. That appeasement with the radical elements does not guarantee safety from aggression. India and Pakistan holding hands...

Frankly, the world is a more safer place. While the terror alerts still ring out in this country, dozens if not hundreds of potential attacks have been thwarted world-wide. Greater safety measures now help protect our citizens, and with these measures, other countries have stepped up their own security.

At what price glory?

The blood of many troops lies spilled in battle. They died to make a better world and bring freedom to an oppressed people. Can one think of a more noble cause?

For those who cry foul at the Patriot Act and the prisoners in Gitmo as an eroding sacrifice of rights, remember that we are governed by the people, and the beauty of our Constitution prohibits wrong doing from progressing too far.
The courts have a way of correcting the rights that Legislation and Executive order may exceed.

WMD abound throughout the world in many countries.
The message has been sent that it is no longer permissible to develop and threaten the world order and the world is a better place because of it.
Whether WMD existed in Iraq or not, the intent was demonstrated by Saddam's regime that they would use them to intimidate their region and people.

The war in Iraq was a result of foreign policy and not just the WMD.

[ethics]

I wouldn't bet on any of the above,however. More likely the latest story is another neocon smokescreen, and some of you just won't admit you were wrong. I already did that many months ago. You'd know that if you didn't come here doing only your drive-by-postings.

[pupowski]

I wasn't directing that remark at you or anyone in specific. Just a reality check for die-hard hope addicts. Condi Rice confirmed this AM that the administration is aware of no credible evidence to support the story.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/381440.html

The only reason for my sporadic participation is time constraints, but I'll try to watch the drive by's out of respect for the group.

[Neo]

Given the undisputed past of Iraq, Saddam, and WMDs, doesn't anyone find it suspicious that we have not found ANY evidence of WMDs, as opposed to finding just a small or degraded quantity to what we alleged?

[Frodo Lives]

I wonder if they would tell the media if they did find WMD, at least in any significant quantities. What would happen with the media if they announced they found large amounts of nukes/anthrax/smallpox/French hats stored somewhere in Iraq?

[limeygit]

You should remember the old adage, if you want something found, ask the Danes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3386357.stm

[Copzilla]

You should remember the old adage, if you want something found, ask the Danes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3386357.stmWell Limey, this won't be enough to satisfy people of a chemical weapons program, for certain. The thing is that some will write it off as forgotten equipment, which I doubt that it was, although it would be old and not as useful as newer weapons. The thing to remember though is that we're not looking for one giant neon sign in the desert saying "VX here"... Evidence filters in over time and the cumulative picture has to be seen. It's just another piece of the puzzle in this tyrannical dictator's regime.

Significant? Not of itself, but when added to everything else, it is.

[Robert Harris]

Indeed - we were terribly threatened by those 36 10- year- old mortar shells. I am sure they could have been fired and reached the US.

[Neo]

You should remember the old adage, if you want something found, ask the Danes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3386357.stm

Good find limey! But although interesting in its own right it is separate from what I am getting at! ;)

[Sierra Mike]

The thing to remember though is that we're not looking for one giant neon sign in the desert saying "VX here"...
Of course not--the Iraqis wouldn't put that stuff out in the middle of the desert, because they couldn't find them again. Why do you think the vaunted Republican Guards and SRG guys always stuck to the roadways in the past two conflicts?

Because they get lost really, really easy. No joke.

SM

[cdw]

die-hard hope addicts

He must be talking about me. :)

[ditch]

You should remember the old adage, if you want something found, ask the Danes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3386357.stm

Interesting find by the Danes but not what you'd call surprising. There was plenty of evidence that gas was a favourite of Saddam. Those shocking pictures of the Kurds lying dead was evidence enough. Not what the searchers were hoping for either. If thats all that turns up the conclusion would have to be that no WMD were found. Not enough to justify an invasion.

[Copzilla]

Indeed - we were terribly threatened by those 36 10- year- old mortar shells. I am sure they could have been fired and reached the US.Remember my post, Bob? The big picture? As in the entire arsenal, the overall situation?

How about all his weapons, political antics and military tactics destabilizing a region that is vital to our interests?

A weapon doesn't have to reach our shores to affect us. And even if it doesn't affect us but affects an innocent, then those of us that belong to the free world do have an obligation to the oppressed.

Oh, but wait, the oppressed don't mean shit unless they can vote democrat. :rolleyes:

[Robert Harris]

In fact I think they are supposed to vote Republican from now on.

[pupowski]

In fact I think they are supposed to vote Republican from now on.I hear they have voting machines that do it for them.