Battle of the sexes

[Vicky]

I can't understand for the life of me, why people get so uptight about the whole male/female thing.

Why do we have to be equal? Why can't we respect each other's differences and accept that we will never be completely equal?

I think there is way too much time and energy put into arguing this topic. I enjoy a man opening a door for me, or offering to carry something heavy etc. This is something which seems to be disappearing since the equality debate began.

It seems to me that some women want the best of both worlds, and you just can't have it.

What do you all think about this topic?

[ditch]

Viva la difference.

Apologies for the French but it hasn't got the same ring to it in English.

[ethics]

I open doors for men also and if THEY start complaining, I am in real trouble. ;)

In all seriousness, the topic[s] that lead to many of the offspring threads was more or less on the equality and I would have wished for less distraction in them and more discussion. I think we could have all benefitted a lot more from that topic than we have prior and I am looking to get back in to the matter after some time off.

I've known both types of women in my life, I've dated all sorts, lived with some, dumped the others. I am all for independence of a woman, to me it's sexy and attractive. There is, however, a tilt to go to far and that attractiong turns in to disgust. When I dated, I liked to speak about many different aspects of life, even feminism, but when it got to a point where I had to guess what I could do or could not do (like opening doors, paying for dinner, etc...) it became not fun and I started avoiding those types.

[BigDeputyDog]

In all things pertaining to business, education, etc. I am for equality between the sexes. I'm a firm believer in best qualified person for the job. I support equal but not special treatment.

However, in my personal life, I'm quite a bit of an old school Gentleman. I feel that it is my duty, nay my pleasure, to treat the ladies in my life like Ladies. I'm a door opening, chair pulling out, light the cigarette, walk on the curbside son-of-a-gun. I call when I say I'll call, show up when I say I will, and always take my Lady's feelings into consideration. When it comes to household chores, then equality is the key. I cook, clean, do laundry, mop floors, do windows, and anything else that needs to be done.

BDD... :{)

[Copzilla]

I mirror that, almost to the letter.

I believe that equality doesn't have to be the death of chivalry. I haven't mopped in a gazillion years (not that I wouldn't, I just haven't), but I do laundry, dishes, and I'm one helluva cook.

I buy for ladies, and for other men on their birthdays, I send flowers to lady friends in hospitals.

I do our household finances because I'm good at it, I'm frugal, I prioritize well. I'm captain of our fishing boat because I'm good at that, too. I'm an alpha personality that has respect and compassion for others.

Any woman that is so ate up with feminism that she's offended by an attempt at chivalry is a woman I won't associate with. Or even try being polite to. I'll give her what she wants. Cold interaction.

[Violet1966]

I love to be treated delicately and cherished for being a female in my personal relationships, but in the workplace, I want to be treated as an equal and that's because if I was working, it would be to make money. I would want to make the same money as the males around me if I was as qualified as they. Workplace and personal life are two different things for me. If that makes any sense to anyone. LOL :nut:

[Coriolis]

Originally posted by Violet1966
I love to be treated delicately and cherished for being a female in my personal relationships, but in the workplace, I want to be treated as an equal and that's because if I was working, it would be to make money. I would want to make the same money as the males around me if I was as qualified as they. Workplace and personal life are two different things for me. If that makes any sense to anyone. LOL :nut:
Makes absolute sense! I think you really hit the nail on the head here, Violet.

Women should never be taught that their feminimity (sp?) has to be sacrificed to obtain equality in a male dominated society. This may have been a notion that propogated from the early days of the feminist revolution, where women were finally escaping the bindings of the home, where they were expected to cook, clean and please hubby, without complaint. Perhaps women needed to sacrifice some of that feminimity to be able to step out of, or alter, that expected role. I think times have changed positively in this regard.

These days, I generally see male/female roles in the home being derived more from a logistic/pragmatic approach, as opposed to a traditional approach, which I believe Copz was referring to. For example, I work, but I also do all the cooking, most of the laundry, the finances, evening time with the kids (putting to bed, bathing etc.), and other odd jobs (garbage, fixing things, etc). My wife does the bulk of the cleaning (except the kitchen, which is my domain), organizing, and caring for the kids (a full time job in itself). We have taken on those roles because it works for us -- I'm the better cook and she's the better organizer. She lets me call the shots on financial matters (well... sort of ;)) and I let her call the shots on child rearing matters (mostly ;)). It makes sense for us to do it this way. But she also has needs as a women, and I do as a man, and we don't deny each other these. We are equals in the household, but with different roles and needs. I realize there are still "traditional driven" families, but I think this is becoming less common.

In the work place, men and women must also be viewed as equals (position, pay, opportunity, etc), just as in the home, but perhaps there's a difference with respect to how "feminine" and "masculine" roles/needs are expected to be fullfilled, and I think this is where we get in trouble, and where society has lagged in terms of true equality of the sexes. There are many societal norms that are tough to break -- Can a man be a nurse or secretary? Of course! Can a woman be a pipe fitter or a CEO? Of course! Yet, hiring practices for these occupations still remain traditionally driven, as opposed to logically driven. Upholding these deeply entrenched norms is still keeping women's paychecks, and positions, lower then men's.

I recall a brain teaser of sorts that goes something like this:

<i>A horrible car accident leaves a man dead, and his son critically injured. The boy is rushed to the hospital. When brought into emergency surgery, the doctor takes one look at the boy, and says, "I can't operate on this boy, he is my son". Who is the doctor?</i>

It's amazing how many people I've managed to stump with this. Deeply entrenched norms die hard.

It's tough to balance between maintaining the "feminine" and "masculine" needs/roles in the houshold, and eliminating those needs/roles in the workplace. In the home it can work between two partners, where there is mutual respect (the key ingredient, IMO) and a real team effort to maximize quality of life. In the work place, however, it is wrought with problems. It mostly comes down to mutual respect, I believe. Why else would a woman earn less for doing the same job as a man? This is what needs to change.

Anyway, I'm rambling now... ;)

[ethics]

No, you are not rambling, but definitely a post of the day. :)

[joseftu]

Post of the day, I agree...
<small>and she's the boy's mother, right?</small>

[Aria]

Well if the father's dead, it doesn't leave anyone else :)