Wwyd?

[Steve]

You discover incontrovertible, reproducible proof of God's existence.  The proof further serves to confirm the basic tenets and belief structure of one, and only one, of the world's religions.  All others are, therefore, shown and proven to be false.

You may choose to divulge this proof or you may keep it to yourself.

What would you do?

[Andy]

Since undoubtedly, I would be considered a heretic and a charlatain by those religions that were actually "wrong", I guess I'd keep my trap shut.

[Techie2000]

I divulge the truth.

[Paladin]

Originally posted by stevent
You discover incontrovertible, reproducible proof of God's existence....
I check myself in to the loony bin since there is no such thing as incontrovertible, reproducible proof.

Otherwise, not realizing I am crazy, I write up my findings and the incontrovertible, reproducible proof. Either I cruise until I connect to someone's wireless LAN/internet connection; or I hit B-Boxes and tap into DSL circuits until I find one with a fixed IP (no logon needed.) I get a Yahoo! account, go to Google Groups and post the file to four very active newsgroups. I then clear out, destroy my records, and forget about the whole thing.

[bruzzes]

I can never respond to these types of philosophical questions.

It always seems to be worded that God or soul are seperate, controlling entities. Since I believe otherwise, the question does not make sense to me.

Now if one was to be "enlightened" and a part of that one tenet, one would not need to divulge truth to the world. It would exude throughout your whole being.

[Violet1966]

What would I do? I'd hope other people could see the same thing as me, and would show those who I know the proof. If it was for real and not just in my mind, then others would see it as real too. I would think from there the realness of it all would spread and lots of people would then see it was real :)

[Domh]

Head straight to the Vatican and sell the info to the pope for 100 Billion dollars, buy a large island (stocked for 100 years) smack dab in the middle of the Pacific... and watch the ensuing madness on a 60" plasma, Mai Tai in hand.

Seriously.

[ethics]

Great discussion, as usually presented by Stevent. ;)

[Sarge]

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.
Hebrews 11:1
NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
1 Cor. 9:18
What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

[BigDeputyDog]

I would probably post here in this forum, for it is filled with intelligent people with a varied background of religion and ethnicity. I would get a consensus of opinion and then decide what to do with the information...

BDD... :{)

[ethics]

My answer (outside of BDD's post ;)), Stevent, would be with a question. How does the religion that is right benefit? Does the benefit outweigh the liabilities to the other religions which were wrong? Would the other religions change their in order to be on the correct path?

[ShinyTop]

I would divulge the truth but not expect many to believe it. All faiths are filled with catch 22's about non-believers and would just attribute your provable answer to shennanigans by the devil or their version of evil. If you believe you don't have to question, so if you question you will get no answers. Too deep for this simple country boy.

[Domh]

No religions would change, as they are all based on differing analyses of data. "Irrefutable data" would still be subject to widely varied and differing analyses.

[Sarge]

Originally posted by ethics
How does the religion that is right benefit?
This should never be the question. It should be "how does man benefit?"

Jesus Christ did nothing for his own benefit, per se. He taught the truth to everyone for their own benefit - to receive immortality and eternal life. Nor, did Christ accept payment for his ministry and he commanded the same of his apostles. Christ knew that the reward for his obedience was in heaven. We are afforded the same benefits as Christ if we are obedient and live by his example.

Does the benefit outweigh the liabilities to the other religions which were wrong?
What would the liabilities be? Christ himself taught the true gospel and he was rejected. He was ultimately crucified.

Would the other religions change their in order to be on the correct path? "Religion" is of man, and man has the freedom to accept or reject the truth. Therein lies our opportunity exercise our faith and prove our worthiness.

The true gospel of Christ is being taught and practiced today. Its not a matter of which church is right and which church is wrong. Its a matter of which church has a fullness of the truth, or gospel.

[ethics]

Crap, Sarge, I meant humans, NOT religion!!! Crap!!! :(

[Domh]

Im gonna go way out on a limb here, but Sarge - are you by any chance a devout Christian?

[ethics]

Actually, this is a good time to ask the following:

Sarge, what would you do (if anything) if you found out that Christ was wrong? That he was not the son of God?

I don't mean to be disrespectful to you nor your religion, so the question is sincere. Would it change you?

[Misu]

What is the proof we're talking about, here? I want to know what sort of reproducable proof I have in my hand before I go and potentially risk my life by pissing off a whole lotta people in the world.

[Sarge]

Originally posted by domhain
Im gonna go way out on a limb here, but Sarge - are you by any chance a devout Christian?
Yes. But a bad example of one!:angel:

[Sarge]

Originally posted by ethics
Actually, this is a good time to ask the following:

Sarge, what would you do (if anything) if you found out that Christ was wrong? That he was not the son of God?

I don't mean to be disrespectful to you nor your religion, so the question is sincere. Would it change you?

No offense taken, Ethics.

Since everyone else seems to be going out on a limb, I guess its my turn. I just hope I don't sound preachy, because I don't like it either. But I will share what I believe.

I don't worry about Christ being wrong because I know he is not. I know that He is the son of God. I know that he lives with a flesh and blood body - he was resurrected.

How do I know these things? Pure faith.

I have seen and experienced certain things in my life that were nothing less than miracles. Things that could only be of divine providence. Things that defy human explanation. The truest of miracles occur every day, but it takes faith to recognize them.

I wish I knew how to make people see the every day things of God. Isn't that what this thread is all about? I can't give someone faith. All I can do is share my faith. Its up to those who hear me to believe, or have faith, that what I say is true.

I'm searching for words here, but they elude me. Faith is deep in one's heart and soul. When you feel it it will remove so much doubt.

The following from the Book of Mormon says it best:
And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.

And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.

What you believe spiritually should not be based on the words of man, rather the words of God and Jesus Christ. If anyone reading this post is truly searching for "truth," I promise that if you accept the above challenge you will find truth.

James 1:5-8
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

If you want to find truth, you first have to have faith that its there. Second, you have to search for it.

[ethics]

Excellent post, Sarge, I believe it answered stevent's question up and down and all around. :)

Thank you.

[Techie2000]

I check myself in to the loony bin since there is no such thing as incontrovertible, reproducible proof Yes there is, or can you effectively argue that there is no such thing as gravity?

[Domh]

Originally posted by Paladin
I check myself in to the loony bin since there is no such thing as incontrovertible, reproducible proof.

I know why that statement is absolutely correct, but I want Paladin to explain his take.

Paladin?

;)

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Techie2000
Yes there is, or can you effectively argue that there is no such thing as gravity?
It is my understanding that there is no such thing as "gravity." What we call gravity is actually an artifact of the curvature of the space-time continuum.

http://www.lifetheory.org/spacetime.html
As an example, gravity is not actually pulling anything, but curving the structure of space so that objects are inclined to move towards each other

[Paladin]

Originally posted by Paladin
I check myself in to the loony bin since there is no such thing as incontrovertible, reproducible proof. Originally posted by domhain
I know why that statement is absolutely correct, but I want Paladin to explain his take.Originally by Jonathan Swift
You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place.
People hold their religious views by faith, not reason. It is impossible to provide incontrovertible proof to someone who will not accept any reasoning that goes counter to his faith.

[Fiona]

I'd do the same thing I try to do everyday... spread it to the world so they have a chance to choose.

[Fiona]

and by the way... although I see it from a Christian side, as a science minded person, Paladin is right. There is no such thing as incontrovertible... proof. there is only yet to be proved and yet to be disproved

[Steve]

While the discussion is fascinating, y'all need to look up the definition of the word "incontrovertible" and take the original premise at face value. Doing otherwise changes the whole nature of the discussion. That's neither bad, nor good, mind you, but it is different, and isn't the discussion I was looking to provoke.

[Fiona]

well ya know stevent (i answered the question first, THEN went off on my tangent) these blokes can't stay ON topic if it meant anights worth of free lapdances... (says the pot to the kettle) :)

[Steve]

I don't generally mind OT, mainly because I'm as guilty as anyone ;) But when the OT does change the original thrust of an argument or debate, I believe it's preferable for people to start a new thread.

This one is one of those "gray areas", I guess, it's not completely OT, yet it is different enough...

[melpomene]

i will tell you this little repetitive thought i have...

Jesus Christ comes back to this day, he walks outside of LA international airport, looks around...............pulls a face, and asks Scotty to beam him up.

[Aria]

All gods are one god, all goddesses are one goddess. All the different roads we take have but one destination, no one road is right or wrong, just different scenery. :)

[jfcjrus]

Originally posted by stevent
What would you do?
Me? I'd keep my trap shut.

Consider; Jesus, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, and a host of others all supposedly 'knew the truth', and attempted to teach the rest of us assholes what it was really all about.
Many of those that 'knew the truth' got their lives cut short for their effort.

And, during thousands of years, how do the students (believers) behave?
One WAR after another. Millions dead, in the name of some perceived 'truth'.
Or, if not WAR, then distrust, scorn, or even hate at those that perceive the 'truth' differently than themselves.
Methinks either we're not listening, or we've had some pretty poor teachers, so far.

So, even of YOU 'knew the truth', exactly how would you teach it to the other 7 billion inhabitants of this rock.
What makes you think you'd be more successful than the teachers we've had so far?

Personally, I don't think mankind is ready for the 'truth'.
For too many of us, the daily struggle to survive is the 'truth'.
Until everyone get a fair shot at living a decent life, then I, for one, wouldn't even attempt to teach them the 'truth' about God.
What would be the point?

Just my thoughts.
Regards,

[IamZed]

I am an agnostic. If any ones God came down and proved to me he/she was the one true God, and that people believing in another were not invited to the end game, I would yank out my dick and piss on that deity, whatever it was.

[melpomene]

* i like this thread, i like this thread * i can see it, i can cognitively process the thoughts in this thread, i have my eyesight, so i can see these posts, i have processed that, its tangible, i can read it, i have processed that in my cerebral cortex.....................but does it exist

i know where dom, the non de plume, is coming from

and............"God" doesnt exist...............sorry folks, this is true. He was, stressing "he", was invented many a millenium ago so that we dont feel so alone and isolated in the universe.

off to Moe's. :cool:

[Stiofán]

Perhaps fodder for another thread.

[Domh]

Split thread.

;)

[Fiona]

Thank you for the split, now back to the question... or perhaps it was answered to your satisfaction stevent?

[Steve]

:)

My satisfaction is really involved, fiona, I only start these sorts of topics for the sole purpose of getting people to think about things they normally don't or wouldn't, and to afford them a chance to debate the issues with others of diverse opinions.

The only "right" answer is that we keep seeking it.