No Sign of Scuds or Banned Arms in Iraq Yet -U.S.

[nitewriter]

The U.S so far have found no WMD or SCUD missles.
If none are found will this cause problems for the U.S in future situations in the war on terrorism?.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2429803

[ethics]

We were only in some parts of Iraq for about 3 days and the primary mission was to gain access to the oil fields and Baghdad itself. I'd rather reserve my judgement until the US and coalition troops are in a better position to analyse the situation and the arsenal that is probably hidden if not to be used.

[Wacko]

I'm in agreement with ethics.

[cdw]

"So far there have been no Scuds launched, which is very positive today."

See, now, I thought that it had been reported that scuds had been used. Hmmm... misinformation.

But, we are just getting there...we are fighting, trying to keep ourselves alive. There will be the time to show and tell later.
We aren't at that point yet.

[Robert Harris]

Originally posted by nitewriter
The U.S so far have found no WMD or SCUD missles.
If none are found will this cause problems for the U.S in future situations in the war on terrorism?.


If none of these things are found, despite our claim of having irrefutable evidence, it certainly will cause problems. Two kinds of problems.

1) It will undermine the credibility of the White House even in the minds of those who so far have chosen to ignore its penchant for lying about all sorts of things.

2) It will drive some folks crazy -- those who have been gullible enough to believe every word put out by the White House and who have repeated it in slightly different forms over and over and over.... There will be a mad rush for them to create excuses. Pundits, journalists and -- sad to say -- ordinary people, such as some of our colleagues.

Of course, if these things are found there will be no real problems of those sorts. There may be some other problems undoing the damage done to international institutions and our relationships with other nations caused by clumsy diplomacy in the process of getting to war, as outlined below in a quote is from a James Brady column in this week's Crain's New York Business.


...the great diplomats of this administration who, embarrassingly, couldn't even bribe Turkey.

If war is the failure of diplomacy, consider this. In a matter of months, Washington succeeded in wrecking NATO, rendering the U.N. even more impotent, maybe doomed Tony Blair, swapped old alliances with France, Germany and Belgium for our new best friends, Cameroon, Guinea, Angola and, yes, Bulgaria. And with Tom Ridge the material of Jay Leno monologues, we're back on orange alert. While on Capitol Hill both parties spent the last few days of peace renaming fried potatoes and a ding-a-ling congresswoman from Florida urged us to dig up the graves of American soldiers in Normandy?

I've felt from the start that Mr. Bush wanted this war and, regardless of Hans Blix, we were going to have the war. Why? Because "terrorism" is amorphous and Osama a will-o'-the-wisp, and Iraq is easy. It's there, it can't get away, the tin pot in charge is an authentically bad guy, and Tommy Franks for mayor!

From: http://www.crainsny.com/article.cms?articleId=18916. (You can try it but I think the site opens only for subscribers to the print edition.)

And if they do find such devices those of us who have expressed skepticism about the whole White House build-up to going to war will be embarrassed.

[Violet1966]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/22/earlyshow/main545338.shtml

Could it be that he doesn't want to be remembered as a liar? Pride?

[ethics]

AQuote from Bob's link...the great diplomats of this administration who, embarrassingly, couldn't even bribe Turkey.

Bribe? Turkey is a democratic country, I am actually GLAD the way it was done and proves to the people under tyrants and dictators that Democracy works much better than whatever the crap they are under.

 

[bruzzes]

This may be irrelevant, since I seldom save the links and stories I read while surfing various sites, but I do believe we have already found a site and have cordoned it off for later investigation.

I saw the story on Friday, where special ops located such a site.
It would be advantageous if the US would allow specialists in WMD of arab and french nationality to accompany them on some of these ops.

These weapons will be found. Once the war is over, the scientists will have free reign to come clean. Whether this is truly the reason for this war, or whether it is collateral information for "pax americana", I cannot say.

One thing is certain. The Bush Doctrine of you are with us or against us, good vs evil, the world policeman exporting our values around the world or whatever vision this administration puts forth, it has severely affected the old institutions and allies of the past century.

I sincerely do not believe that the US intention was to show the irrelevance of the United Nations, nor to crack the alliances of NATO, the Atlantic Alliance and the partnership of the EU. Nevertheless, those institutions have suffered a traumatic blow to the stability it has forged since WWII.

I believe, it was a miscalculation on perhaps a myoptic view that all our allies would eventually cave in and embrace this action as it has throughout the past decades. Few in the administration expected a unified effort by Germany and our supposedly new friend Putin to join France in polarizing and splitting our (and I mean OUR) carefully crafted alliances.

Perhaps we were better off in continuing the Cold War with the Soviet Union. At least then, the world had a choice between two diametrically opposed ideologies.

The French opposition to the US, is not merely a temper tantrum that we have seen in the past. Each opposition in the UN was a stepping stone to higher ambitions. With the advent of the EU, the coming age of adolescence has been reached. Too long has the parent [US] been in charge and like most parents, wish to keep their children dependant. France has declared "no more."
They are now poised to take a leadership role in the new EU whether we like it or not.
The dependency on the US and the security that it has enjoyed will be weaned away. Already, new security measures and military build-up of each member of the EU is galvanizing. The EU is now on the road to defend themselves.

It is very important for the US to understand this growth and accept the maturity and let this organization stand on it's own two feet. It is not easy to become independent. The EU will make mistakes. But that is how we all learn.

I must admit, I had bought in to the pax americana vision advocated by this administration. I see the enemy being a clash with two civilizations and that the war is not against countries anymore but the radical fanaticism inherited in each culture: radical Islam and the nationalistic patriotism of our own countries.

Many of us here, have cheered the apparent demise of the UN, while others have bemoaned that peace can never be achieved without it.

The UN is not a world government. To be so would mean the elimination of national sovereignty. But to achieve a global peace that step would have to be made. Before that decision comes to pass, and at some point it will become inevitable, it would be advantageous to convene a body where these ideas can be discussed and solidified. One recommendation would be to restructure the Security Council or eliminate it all together. The General Assembly which contains most of the nations of the world can also be strengthened where a majority or 3/5th's of the assembled body can determine the future of a global whole.
With this structure, no one nation can strong arm another. The rich nations may still be able to buy votes, but with the sheer number of nations needed to have consensus it would be very expensive.
Each nation, regardless of size would have one vote. Hence, the substance of any proposal would need a willing coalition of nations resulting in justice of the whole rather than the wants of a few.

The US is on a perilous path. This pro-active strike, without overt evidence of national peril may be necessary in this administrations view, but creates a dangerous precedent. It is my hope, that in historic timelines it can be shown to be imperative in nature and that a quick transition and immediate departure of our forces can be achieved as soon as possible.

There is much fence mending to be made. Not only with our allies, but with the Muslim nations. A quick withdrawal will help reverse our negative image.

Some say one should be consistent in their views and that consistency shows intellectual stability. But it can also be argued that those who close their minds when facts become apparent and continue to ignore them, limit their ability to grow.

I still remain pro war in this particular instance. It is the future vision and the past destruction of revered institutions and freedoms I question.

Which path we take remains to be seen.
I firmly hope we choose the correct one.

[Pyrion]

The thing that bothers me about the question of "where are the supposed WMD's?" is that we've only been at this for three days. If the WMD's we say they have were just lying around you'd think the U.N. inspectors would've seen them and thus it would've been OFN. It's gonna be a while until it's safe enough to bring in our several thousand inspectors to figure out what is what and what is where.

[Coot]

Well, if this story (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/PrinterFull&cid=1048389497622) in the Jerusalem post pans out, we may have found the first instance of wmd's in Iraq.

About 30 Iraqi troops, including a general, surrendered today to US forces of the 3rd Infantry Division as they overtook huge installation apparently used to produce chemical weapons in An Najaf, some 250 kilometers south of Baghdad.

It wasn't immediately clear exactly which chemicals were being produced here, but clearly the Iraqis tried to camouflage the facility so it could not be photographed aerially, by swathing it in sand-cast walls to make it look like the surrounding desert.

[ethics]

Oh man, if true, this would be it for the world to see.

[Stiofán]

I heard the same news on MSNBC and CNN earlier today. It's partially confirmed by Centcom saying they have now captured two Iraqi General officers in the last 24 hours, one of which was at this compound. Civilian chemical and biologial experts are being brought in toe deal with it, as soon as the area is secure enough.

Everyone needs to understand the regular conscript divisions were not thought to have any chemical artillary, but the Republican Guard units were, and the coalition is just beginning to probe their outer defenses now.

[ethics]

This could be a pharmaceutical plant though. I am going to follow my thought of extra-ordinary accusations demand extra-ordinary evidence.

[Stiofán]

It could be just about anything. We are only 3 1/2 days into this invasion. How long did it take to discover first hand the death camps in Germany and Poland in WWII? The media's hunger for sensationalism and the world impatience is driving this right now, but whatever is there will eventually come out.

[ethics]

How long? Don't get me started about how the US didn't act to bomb concentration camps back in 1942 when asked and they certainly knew about it.

But I am going off topic and for that I apologize.

[Stiofán]

Posted for comparison only. I'm just saying that we're awful early into this thing to expect results yet.

[ethics]

I agree 100%. I don't know what to wish for in this case. On the one hand, I wish we do find it and let the world to see many things, among them the impotence of the inspectors of the UN. Of course, that would mean that the reports of RG of Iraq were probably armed with this crap were not too much exaggerated and that there is a risk of them having it.

On the other hand, I hope there isn't any, even at the risk of the US and its coalition being told "I told you so!" because then I can breathe a sign of relief for our troops and even the Iraqi people who would definitely be affected by any agents released in their cities for whatever reasons.

[ethics]

It may be sooner than later. US is now reporting that some Iraqi soldiers were found with "some type" of chemical weapons. (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2432390)

Will be glued to this revelation.