CNN: Grenade Attack on U.S. Troops in Kuwait

[nitewriter]

This just in:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=MXJQ3G4SMFDHACRBAELCFEY?type=to pNews&storyID=2429535

[cdw]

The journalist said two grenades had been rolled into the command tent, in what appeared to be a "terrorist attack."

How'd they get near the tent to "roll" them in?
WTF?

That will be the 2nd or third "terrorist" thing today.

Just wondering what would make this a terrorist vs an attack by the Iraqi's be they civilians that are trying to protect their country or military?

Edit: oops.. sorry.. didn't see it was Kuwait.

[ethics]

They best beef up security in Kuwait. Loads of "fans" for the US troops. This has been happening long before the war.

[nitewriter]

Camp Pennsylvania
10 wouned, 6 seriously
2 granades, target was command tents.
2100 infantry in camp.
2 people being held.

[Coriolis]

The journalist said two grenades had been rolled into the command tent, in what appeared to be a "terrorist attack."
When you are at war with an enemy, and you shoot at them, fire missiles at them, and drop bombs on them, we don't call that terrorism. We call it war. Why, then, is the enemy committing a "terrorist attack" if they lob granades at US troops? Is it really different because it happened in Kuwait? I suppose there's some logic in that, but I don't really see it.

[ShinyTop]

Terrorist because they were not uniformed combatants. Not defending the label, merely explaining it. Guerillas is a term we have used in the past for this.

[Coriolis]

Ok, I guess I can buy that.

[cdw]

One of the reporters there said that two of the soldiers were shot when they came out of the tent trying to escape the grenades.

[bruzzes]

Actually it was an american soldier.

[saber11]

Just heard a member of the 101st was Arrested for attempting to kill his fellow soldiers.

[cdw]

They are saying now that he is an american muslim soldier.

[Domh]

This is extremely bad and needs to be hushed up ASAP. Seditionist/terrorist behavior at this stage of the campaign will do alot of damage.

Somebody was asleep at the wheel, somewhere.

:(

[joseftu]

Extremely bad, yes.
Hushed up? What?!

[Robert Harris]

This sort of thing happened a lot in Vietnam. Known as fragging. Usually practiced by enlisted men against officers they did not like for one reason or another.

[ShinyTop]

I should be noted the fragging only got heavy after the infusion of heroin into South Vietnam. You mix weapons and heroin with perceived wrongs and it is a lethal mix.

[Domh]

Hushed up for now, damn straight. Discussed openly later, absolutely. We have a very important job to do, and many lives on the line working to get it done. Its a war, not a goddamn democracy. Theres a huge difference. If there werent, there wouldnt BE democracy to begin with.

[cdw]

Known as fragging. Usually practiced by enlisted men against officers they did not like for one reason or another.

I never heard of it before, but back then, I really wasn't paying attention. I was stupid.
Perhaps this is what that was... they are saying it had to do with resentment, although they have not come out and said resentment against what.... since it was command that he went after, perhaps it was that and the fact he's muslim has nothing to do with it.

Either way, it's disturbing. Very disturbing. They haven't even been there that long for that kind of resentment to build up yet, have they?

[ShinyTop]

Cyd, it could have begun back at Ft Campbell. The reason I suspect it may have been more political than personal is that the attack has been reported to have been aimed at the commander of the division, a man few junior enlisted men would have a chance to hate on a personal basis.

[cdw]

They are announcing it was definately him and that there is another guy they are questioning about it. Awful. But, I guess to be expected. There are unstable people in every walk of life.
And, if it ends up to be more political, who are we to expect that we don't have moles and defectors and plants in our forces and governments?

[FrankF]

Originally posted by cydweeks
They are announcing it was definately him and that there is another guy they are questioning about it. Awful. But, I guess to be expected. There are unstable people in every walk of life.
And, if it ends up to be more political, who are we to expect that we don't have moles and defectors and plants in our forces and governments?
It is time to put a bullet through his head.

[nitewriter]

It has been reported that 1 of the U.S soldiers has died from the grenade attack.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2430121

[BestFriend]

No matter how you look at it or label it...it doesn't belong on the "team". Stress and pressure does weird things to people's mind. Throw that on top of a person with a bad attitude against something...it is bound to blow up some how and thrash out at those around the person. Time to get him out before he creates more havoc and unleashes other weak ones. Definately not a team player...huh? The insubordination should have been enough to send a flag up to keep closer tabs on him...at this early stage of the game.

[Coot]

I don't know about this young man, but having talked to two people in my life that participated in fraggings in VN, those (at least in the mind of the perpetrators) were both politically driven and survival driven. The perception on the part of the people doing it in Vietnam was that they had a young inexperienced officer in charge that thought substantially less of their lives than of his own career. They believed that said young officer was trying to maximize his combat experience for the furthering of his own career. The excuses given fell into two catgories:

1. The officer knew that his combat experience was likely to be limited, so in order to maximize the benefit, he would unnecessarily order troops into harm's way to achieve said objective.

2. Young officiers tend to be optimistic. The other commonly held belief is that they would call in air strikes too close to their troops and kill some in order that the objective be realized.

[midranger4]

Regardless of one's position in all of this I think we can agree that the press coverage is absolutely sickening as well harmful to U.S. troops.

First we had the pyrotechnics show over Baghdad then I saw CNN interviewing the parents of a soldier killed yesterday. The father had a brave speech but the horror and pain in the eyes of the mother told the true story. The reporter was stoking the father telling him what a fine patriot his son was. It was absolutely sickening.

When will they put up a scoreboard not unlike the type they use during the olympics listing each country and the number of their dead?

Now this incident with the American/Muslim soldier. I have to agree with Dom and say this information being in the media is extremely harmful regardless of the soldier's intent and/or religious beliefs. This will be used as propaganda by Saddam and other terrorist elements and it is the press that is at fault.

Right now CNN and FOX both have this moron from the BBC standing on the side of a road while troops are engaging hostiles. Great entertainment......err something.

This is about whacked.

[joseftu]

I'm sorry, Domhain, I'm just not going to agree that this should be "hushed up," now or ever. The facts of the situation will <b>help</b> morale much more than secrecy and the inevitable rumors.

[ethics]

For a strange reason, and I don't do this much, I have to agree with joseftu. There are certain elements that I would wish the media would not show, but, just like our UiF forum, you can't edit posts and angles to soften the blows.

[Misu]

I don't want it hushed up either, but I don't think it was necessary to report that the soldier was a Muslim. This will only lead to propoganda - that is, if Saddam is alive.

[Robert Harris]

I am not sure it could be effectively hushed up for long anyway, gioven the nature of our society and the relationship of the government and the media.

We also will not be able to hush up the fact that casualties seem to be rising -- as was to be expected. Apparently several more marines have been killed, a bunch of our guys are missing and presumed captured and we seem to have shot down a British plane with a Patriot missile. (Saw stories somewhere a while ago but neglected to get URLs.)

[IamZed]

A guy I was in the guard with participated in an “unintentional” fragging once. The commander suspected that the lookout squads out front of his fire base were smoking pot on duty. So he crept up on them. Bad idea. When he realized they were, he jumped out of the bushes and yelled “AH HA!” and was immediately opened up on by every man on point. Officially he died in action at the hands of the Vietnamese.

[ethics]

&nbsp;

In November the Seattle Times reported (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134573317_killer103.html)on a similar incident, which occurred in the 84h Engineering Company during the Gulf War in 1991:

<BLOCKQUOTE>In the first months of that year, the unit was in the Middle East preparing for the ground-attack phase of the Gulf War.

The story, according to [retired sergeant Kip] Berentson and at least two other former members of the 84th, was that [John Allen] Muhammad threw a thermite grenade into a tent housing 16 of his fellow soldiers. .&nbsp;.&nbsp;.

Berentson was in the tent. He says the grenade went off near him and near a staff sergeant with whom Muhammad had fought earlier that day. The Army's Criminal Investigation Division, Berentson says, concluded Muhammad (then named Williams) was the lead suspect.

Muhammad was led away in handcuffs and eventually transferred to another company pending charges. He had been court-martialed twice before for lesser incidents while serving in the Louisiana National Guard. But an indictment over the grenade incident never materialized, and Muhammad's Army file has no record of it.

John Allen Muhammad, in case you've forgotten, is the elder of the two Washington sniper suspects. Lest we perpetuate stereotypes, we won't mention his religion either.

[Misu]

Man, just think - had the military punished this guy for fragging during the Gulf War, he would have probably been sitting in a jail somewhere, and the people he shot would be alive and healthy today.

I can't believe it's not even in his records? How'd they write the news article, then?